2 questions about chanting 64 rounds daily

[Paramananda das]

PAMHO
AGTSP

One devotee send me 2 questions without identifying himself, but non the less they are good questions and deserves an answer:



Q. 1: ¨If Srila Prabhupada did not himself chant 64 rounds, then why
did he ask that of his students, in the begining?¨

¨...Of all the regulative principles, the spiritual master’s order to
chant at least sixteen rounds is most essential.¨ - Cc 2.22.113



Q. 2: ¨If Srila Prabhupada did himself chant 64 rounds, why did he not
instruct his senior students before departing from this world, to
commit themselves?¨


Prabhupada: Then he should try to chant Hare Krsna mantra, instead of
sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is
the minimum. Otherwise Haridasa Thakura was 300,000. So you have to
increase.

SP Morning Walk, May 14, 1975, Perth


The idea of chanting 64 rounds is nothing new this was the standard set by Lord Caitanya and Srila Rupa Goswami instructed all proper vaisnavas in this matter:
In the Prema Vilasa we find these important statements:
From Prema-vilasa Chapter 17: Shrila Narottama to Shrila Kaviraja on the direct process to achieve love of Krishna:

prabhura achaye sankhya tina laksha nama;
eka laksha bhaktagane kaila kripa dana.

"Lord Gauranga Mahaprabhu standard was to chant 3,00,000 names everyday. But He very mercifully awarded His devotees the process of chanting a minimum of 1,00,000 names of Krishna daily.

shri rupa kaila laksha granthera varnana;
tathapiha karila laksha nama grahana.

"Shrila Rupa Goswami has explained and quoted from over 100,000 different scriptures. Even though he was such a great scholar and devotee he himself chanted 100,000 Holy Names daily.

dasa gosvamira ache laksha pramana;
ei mata sarva bhakta kare harinama.

"Shrila Raghunatha dasa Goswami also rigidly followed the instructions of Lord Gauranga by chanting 100,000 names daily. In this way all the devotees chanted the Holy Names of the Lord daily without exception.

gauranga shrimukhe rupe kahila vaishnave;
laksha nama sankhya kari avasya karibe.

"Lord Gauranga gave the following instructions to all the Vaishnavas Himself and also through Shrila Rupa Goswami: Please compulsorily chant 100,000 names of Krishna daily

So Srila Prabhupada encouraged more chanting, he encouraged chanting 64 rounds which is the standard of Lord Caitanya and our Guru parampara in the line of Srila
Rupa Goswami.
Shrila Prabhupada-lilamrita Chp. 49:

"Then a devotee said, 'In America they are trying to chant more, twelve hours a day, trying to get a twenty-four-hour kirtana schedule.' 'Yes, everywhere,' Shrila Prabhupada said, 'this chanting should go on. Instead of meetings, resolutions, dissolutions, revolutions, and then no solutions, there should be chanting.'"

Lord Caitanyas instruction is constant chanting of Hare Krishna in a humble state of mind.Srila Prabhupada mentioned to Tamal Krsna Maharaja that he used to chant 64 rounds for many years.Actually Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada was very strict on this.We see in Jaiva Dharma how the babjis where chanting all day and in the later afternoon they would have much kirtana and discussion on sastra. The question is this how do we know Srila Prabhupada ,did not chant 64 rounds anymore and even if he did.What right does anyone have to questions Srila Prabhuapda on this really, his instruction was clear:"Do not remain idles chant Hare Krishna"
So much time is waster every day with socalled important things when we could also be chanting 64 rounds. I know from many years of sankirtana that very often I would chant 32 rounds in the morning while having full morning program at the temple and do service all day long in my case bookdistribution mostly ,Harinama or so on sometimes (I spend some years doing Harinama 8 hours a day) at night and morning I would still have time to read Srila Prabupadas books and chant more.So if even I can do such a thing, then what to speak of Srila Prabhupada who are so many hundreds of times more advanced in KC than all of us .
vaisnavera kriya-mudra vijne na bujhaya. All of the previous great devotees have said, “No one can understand the behavior of a vaisnava.” Who are we to judge Srila Prabhupada ? But we still have to understand these things for our own and others benefit:

TKG's Diary June 10

Many years ago (Shrila Prabhupada), he was chanting sixty-four rounds,
then gradually less, until a number of years ago it was sixteen.

FIRST INITIATION BY SRILA PRABHUPADA

The Hare Krishna Explosion, p. 63, by Hayagriva dasa, Palace Press
1985.

"Now that you have beads," Swamiji says the next morning, "you should
chant sixty-four rounds every day." "Sixty-four rounds?" To pronounce
every word of the mantra distinctly, we require five minutes to chant
a round. Sixty-four rounds would take over five hours. "Impossible!"
we say. "We'll never have the time." "All right," Swamiji
says. "Thirty-two rounds." "Impossible," we say. "We'll never be able
to do it. It's way too much." "All right," Swamiji says. "Sixteen
rounds. No less."

Due to much preaching and work ,health issues, old age , etc a devotee may not be abel to chant 64 rounds.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabupada was most strict on chanting 64 rounds: http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/gbc-proposal-to-chant-64

I recently had an exchange with Rupanuga Prabhu via another devotee Palaka Prabhu

Hare Krsna
Prabhu

PAMHO AGTSP

thank you very much for this link and the comments

Your servant

Palaka das

PS Rupanuga Prabhu wanted me to share this with you it is from Srila Prabhupada's original N.O.I. verse 5 page 54

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement prescribes sixteen rounds daily because people in the Western countries cannot concentrate for long periods while chanting on beads. Therefore the minimum number of rounds is prescribed. However, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura used to say that unless one chants at least sixty-four rounds of japa (one hundred thousand names), he is considered fallen (patita). According to his calculation, practically every one of us is fallen, but because we are trying to serve the Supreme Lord with all seriousness and without duplicity, we can expect the mercy of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is famous as patita-pāvana, the deliverer of the fallen.

Dear Palaka Prabhu
PAMHO
AGTSP
Thank you I am very familiar with that quote from Nectar of Instruction with Srila Prabhupadas purport.It is a fact Srila Prabhupada tried
to introduce 64 rounds in ISKCON but his first disciples rebelled.
Here is a brief history of the transition from sixty-four rounds a day to sixteen:

"In 1967 at San Francisco, Shrila Prabhupada asked [Mukunda dasa], 'What is your definition of Krishna?' I said, 'Krishna is God. he is the Supreme Being. Our duty is to worship and serve Him.' Swamiji [Shrila Prabhupada] seemed fairly satisfied, and then he said, 'You must chant sixty-four rounds per day on you beads.'

"I was shocked at this and could not answer. I did not know if there was any need to answer. I just kept looking at Swamiji, and he looked at me. After some time he said, 'Or at least you can chant thirty-two rounds a day.' Still silence. I considered it to be very difficult to chant even sixteen rounds. I was wondering how I could possibly chant thirty-two rounds. After some time, Swamiji said, 'At the very you must chant sixteen rounds every day.'" (Shrila Prabhupada Lilamrta)


SO YOU HAVE TO INCREASE (THE CHANTING). THAT IS THE ONLY REMEDY.

DETERMINATION TO CHANT 64 ROUNDS IS DRDHA-VRATAH.

(CONCLUSION: IF THE MATERIAL FEVER IS NOT BEING DIMINISHED, CHANTING
64 ROUNDS IS THE ONLY REMEDY IN THE WORDS OF SRILA PRABHUPADA IN
THE FOLLOWING MORNING WALK.)

Morning Walk, May 14, 1975, Perth:
Devotee (1): Shrila Prabhupada, how can the position be reconciled if
in Krishna consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants
to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be
separation then?

Prabhupada: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means
not advanced in Krishna consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in
Krishna consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That
is the test.

Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra ca . The test is,
how you are advancing in Krishna consciousness is the proportionate
diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of
the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the
test.

Devotee (1): What if that fever is not being diminished?

Prabhupada: Then he should try to chant Hare Krishna mantra, instead of
sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is
the minimum. Otherwise Haridasa Thakura was 300,000. So you have to
increase.

That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make
progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult,
that determination, "I must be Krishna conscious fully." That
determination.

Drdha-vratah.

TRY TO INCREASE (FROM 48 TO 64) BUT NEVER DECREASE YOUR CHANTING.

IF YOU ARE ABLE TO CHANT MORE THAN 16 ROUNDS UP TO 64 IT IS VERY GOOD.

Letter to: Indira (Iris Mendoza), Ekayani (Esther Mendoza), San
Francisco, 17 December, 1967

"I am very glad to learn you are chanting 48 rounds. Actually it is
all right that one should chant 64 rounds, even 16 rounds, so if one
is able to chant more than 16 rounds up to 64, it is very good. You
fix up your rounds.

Try to increase it but never decrease it."

{Note: Indira is fairly new devotee at that time.)

VERY GOOD AND VERY NICE IF YOU CAN DO IT (CHANT 64 ROUNDS):

Letter to: Hamsaduta, Hawaii, 23 March, 1969

"Yes, it is very good if you can chant 64 rounds; this is very nice
if you can do it."

PRABHUPADA PRESCRIBED 64 ROUNDS WHEN DEVOTEES WERE IN TROUBLE WITH
THEIR SENSES:

Letter to: Bhaktijana, Los Angeles, 12 February, 1968

"I shall advise you again to chant always, increasing the counting,
namely, 16 rounds is generally prescribed, but for the time being you
can stop all other activities and increase the chanting to 64 rounds."

That is the instruction given by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in His
Siksastaka 3. Kirtaniyah sada harih: "The holy name
of the Lord should be chanted twenty-four hours daily." Therefore in
this Krishna consciousness movement we request the devotees to chant at
least sixteen rounds on their beads daily. Actually one has to chant
twenty-four hours daily, just like Thakura Haridasa, who was chanting
the Hare Krishna mantra three hundred thousand times daily. Indeed, he
had no other business. (Shrimad-Bhagavatam 4.24.70 purport)

IF YOU CAN'T SURRENDER TO KRSNA, FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF HARIDASA
THAKURA BY CHANTING CONSTANTLY ON BEADS

Surrender is the ultimate instruction of the Bhagavad-gita, but for
one who cannot surrender to the lotus feet of Krishna, it is better to
chant the Hare Krishna mantra constantly, under the instruction of
Haridasa Thakura.

In our Krishna consciousness movement we are teaching our followers to
chant the Hare Krishna mantra continuously on beads. Even those who are
not accustomed to this practice are advised to chant at least sixteen
rounds on their beads so that they may be trained. Sada
means "always." Haridasa Thakura says, nirantara nama lao: "Chant the
Hare Krishna mantra without stopping." One's real duty is to
surrender to the lotus feet of Krishna, but if one is unable to do so,
he should adopt this process, as introduced by Shri Chaitanya
Mahaprabhu and His most confidential servant, Namacarya Shrila
Haridasa Thakura. This is the way to achieve success in Krishna
consciousness. (Shri Chaitanya-charitamrita Antya-lila 3.137)

(Note: Apart from this there are innumerable quotes by Prabhupada
throughout Bhagavatam & Cc on the necessity of constantly chanting
the holy names. A daily discipline of chanting 64 rounds is a great
boost to come up to the stage of constant chanting imho.)

FIRST INITIATION BY SRILA PRABHUPADA

The Hare Krishna Explosion, p. 63, by Hayagriva dasa, Palace Press
1985.

"Now that you have beads," Swamiji says the next morning, "you should
chant sixty-four rounds every day." "Sixty-four rounds?" To pronounce
every word of the mantra distinctly, we require five minutes to chant
a round. Sixty-four rounds would take over five hours. "Impossible!"
we say. "We'll never have the time." "All right," Swamiji
says. "Thirty-two rounds." "Impossible," we say. "We'll never be able
to do it. It's way too much." "All right," Swamiji says. "Sixteen
rounds. No less."

TKG's Diary June 10

Many years ago (Shrila Prabhupada), he was chanting sixty-four rounds,
then gradually less, until a number of years ago it was sixteen.

kindly share this with Rupanuga Prabhu
your servant
Payonidhi das

It is very clear from this if we want the material desires and material contaminations in the age of Kali
to not affect us ( material attachments and aversions) and be situated at Krsnas lotusfeet
there is no other option in this age of Kali but constant chanting Hare Krishna.

ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha--davagni-nirvapanam
shreyah-kairava-chandrika-vitaranam vidya-vadhu-jivanam
anandambudhi-vardhanam prati-padam purnamritaswadanam
sarvatma-snapanam param vijayate sri-krishna-sankirtanam
Glory to the Sri Krishna Sankirtana, which cleanses the heart of all the dust accumulated for years and extinguishes the fire of conditional life, of repeated birth and death. This sankirtana movement is the prime benediction for humanity at large because it spreads the rays of the benediction moon. It is the life of all transcendental knowledge. It increases the ocean of transcendental bliss, and it enables us to fully taste the nectar for which we are always anxious.

If we read Harinama Cintamani also Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has clearly stated the benefit in daily chanting 64 rounds, we may start of with minimum 16 but wy should we not increase our bhakti little by little make it 17 then 18 then 20, 32 untill we reach the standard of 64 (or even go further if we are spirituall advanced enough to do so)

The point I am making is when Srila Prabhupada says chant minimum 16 rounds as you quoted:
¨...Of all the regulative principles, the spiritual master’s order to
chant at least sixteen rounds is most essential.¨ - Cc 2.22.113
And there is many similar ones , it is because many persons are in maya, even if they get initiated and do not seriously maintain even minimum 16 rounds daily, they lack the spiritual health to chant.

In Upadesamrta Srila Rupa Goswami has advised us:

NoI 7: The holy name, character, pastimes and activities of Kṛṣṇa are all transcendentally sweet like sugar candy. Although the tongue of one afflicted by the jaundice of avidyā [ignorance] cannot taste anything sweet, it is wonderful that simply by carefully chanting these sweet names every day, a natural relish awakens within his tongue, and his disease is gradually destroyed at the root.
this can easy be understood by most this is the part that will come next by carefully hearing and chanting about Krsna.
NoI 8: The essence of all advice is that one should utilize one's full time — twenty-four hours a day — in nicely chanting and remembering the Lord's divine name, transcendental form, qualities and eternal pastimes, thereby gradually engaging one's tongue and mind. In this way one should reside in Vraja [GolokaVṛndāvana dhāma] and serve Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of devotees. One should follow in the footsteps of the Lord's beloved devotees, who are deeply attached to His devotional service.

Your next question is:
Q. 2: ¨If Srila Prabhupada did himself chant 64 rounds, why did he not
instruct his senior students before departing from this world, to
commit themselves?¨


Prabhupada: Then he should try to chant Hare Krsna mantra, instead of
sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is
the minimum. Otherwise Haridasa Thakura was 300,000. So you have to
increase.
I can not speculate on the mindset of His Divine Grace, could it be because he knew they would rebel if he asked them again to chant 64 rounds as he had tried to introduce
in 1966 or so.I believe so.When I mention about 64 rounds to some they will not even hear me out others are very eager to hear.
Lets consider these 2 slokas from Siksastakam:

Text 2
namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-shaktis
tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah
etadrishi tava kripa bhagavan mamapi
durdaivam idrisham ihajani nanuragaha


O my Lord, Your holy name alone can render all benediction to living beings, and thus You have hundreds and millions of names like Krishna and Govinda. In these transcendental names You have invested all Your transcendental energies. There are not even hard and fast rules for chanting these names. O my Lord, out of kindness You enable us to easily approach You by Your holy names, but I am so unfortunate that I have no attraction for them.



Text 3
trinad api sunichena
taror api sahishnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harih


One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.






It is very clear constant chanting is the best way to get to the next stage and become free from all kinds of unstead bhakti known as anistha Bhakti:



Text 4
na dhanam na janam na sundarim
kavitam va jagad-isha kamaye
mama janmani janmanishvare
bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki twayi


O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.





This is were pure Bhakti starts,Saranagati ,reall surrender to Krsna:





Text 5
ayi nanda-tanuja kinkaram
patitam mam vishame bhavambudhau
kripaya tava pada-pankaja-
sthita-dhuli-sadrisham vichintaya
O son of Maharaja Nanda [Krishna], I am Your eternal servitor, yet somehow or other I have fallen into the ocean of birth and death. Please pick me up from this ocean of death and place me as one of the atoms at Your lotus feet.

after that is very advanced Bhakti:
Text 6
nayanam galad-ashru-dharaya
vadanam gadgada-ruddhaya gira
pulakair nichitam vapuh kada
tava nama-grahane bhavishyati
O my Lord, when will my eyes be decorated with tears of love flowing constantly when I chant Your holy name? When will my voice choke up, and when will the hairs of my body stand on end at the recitation of Your name?

this is a prayer when a devotee has attained asakti (please see Madhurya Kadambini by Srila Visvanath Chakravati Thakura for further clarification:

Text 7
yugayitam nimeshena
chakshusha pravrishayitam
shunyayitam jagat sarvam
govinda-virahena me
O Govinda! Feeling Your separation, I am considering a moment to be like twelve years or more. Tears are flowing from my eyes like torrents of rain, and I am feeling all vacant in the world in Your absence.

This is Bhava Bhakti and the last sloka is Prema Bhakti:(see also the commentaries of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura to Siksastakam)

Text 8
ashlishya va pada-ratam pinashtu mam
adarshanan marma-hatam karotu va
yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato
mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah
I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

HH Kavicandra Maharaja asked me if I thought Srila Prabhupada chanted 64 rounds and this is my response:

HH Kavicandra Maharaja asked me this question.

This was my response:
dear Kavicandra Swami
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Maharaja you asked me the question:Was Srila Prabhupada chanting 64 rounds?
My answer is 2 questions to you: How do you know he did not chant 64 rounds a day?
If he asked devotees at the first initiation to chant 64 rounds, would he be preaching something he did not do himself ?. I can not accept this notion I am sorry.My humble believe is he likely chanted 64 rounds still and he pretended to be like the "rest of the devotees".Only chanting minimum 16.Even if he chanted 64 rounds. I have been told Srila Prabhupada would constantly be chanting when not preaching and writing books never wasting a second in Krsnas service.Even if he only chanted minimum 16 rounds because he was so busy writing and preaching, he was still an uttama adhikari bhakta.And uttama adhikaris are always engaged in hearing and chanting about Radha and Krsna.We see Srila Prabhupada has so much knowledge of the acaryas books as well, certainly he studied them during his life, Nrsimha Maharaja and those ISKCON devotees that went to Sridhara Swami see that Srila Prabhupada was a nitya siddha, that came from Goloka and eternal associate of Lord Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhu.But for us that all come from the conditioned state we should take Srila Prabhupada instruction to chant 64 rounds very seriously, or we can cheat ourselves and say "impossible",This is my understanding and others have different opinions.In Jaiva Dharma we see how advanced Babajis mentioned by Bhaktivinoda Thakura ,where one tells the other I have chanted 64 rounds or 120 rounds for many years, just now I have become a madhyama adhikari.I think this should make us think very carefully.16 rounds is such a bare minimum. Narayana Maharaja told me once, only a food thinks that 16 rounds is enough to help control the mind, but Mahaprabhu asked for 64 rounds and so did Swamiji.
(Srila Prabhupada) and having considered over time , it is certainly true.We can say oh I am a western and can not chant 64 rounds.
False,we are a spirit souls and eternal servants of Krsna .Impossible is the words in a fools dictionary, Srila Prabhupada said .
Why make it impossible to advance and not chant 64 rounds ( advancement will be much slower chanting less and with less sincerity ) quantity and quality chanting is needed.Puri Maharaja used to say after chanting 64 rounds for many years one should also learn all the books of the acaryas.This he learned from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and followed himself.Kindly consider this sloka also that has come from the pen and lotuslips of Srila Rupa Goswami:
syāt kṛṣṇa-nāma-caritādi-sitāpy avidyā-
pittopatapta-rasanasya na rocikā nu
kintv ādarād anudinaḿ khalu saiva juṣṭā
svādvī kramād bhavati tad-gada-mūla-hantrī
NoI 7: The holy name, character, pastimes and activities of Kṛṣṇa are all transcendentally sweet like sugar candy. Although the tongue of one afflicted by the jaundice of avidyā [ignorance] cannot taste anything sweet, it is wonderful that simply by carefully chanting these sweet names every day, a natural relish awakens within his tongue, and his disease is gradually destroyed at the root.

your humble servant
Payonidhi das

dear Mr Concerned devotee, I am simply concerned that you will also kindly try to understand this and by the grace of Srila Prabhupada and the vaisnavas and Gaura Nitai and our parampara, will also kindly chant 64 rounds as humby suggested by Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya, at least we should never give up the minimum 16.Yesterday I talked with a devotee, who was a nice TP for some years in one of ISKCON largest temples and he had stopped chanting for some years.But started again.
This is not good.So by preaching about chanting 64 rounds, I have seen some devotees will at least regularly chant 16 understanding, that 16 is not the maximum but the very minimum given by Srila Prabhupada .If there is a will there is a way.I have to get back to finishing my 64 rounds for the day, thanks for the nice questions it helps me remind and become more determined in daily chanting 64 rounds as instructed by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Lord Nityananda Prabhu..may they bestow Their mercy so we can all chant 64 rounds daily of Suddha Nama.
16 rounds remains the minimum standard ,but I am preaching about this, not to minimize Srila Prabhupada or show ISKCON is watered down, but that we all need to take this chanting of the Maha mantra more serious in form of Japa and Kirtana.If someone asks why.. they have not carefully understood the benefits of chanting , imagine if we knew today was our last day to live in this body, would we still be only chanting 16 rounds, we do not know when death will come so 64 rounds is the best way to get ready.
We can take nothing with us, we came "empty handed" and leave the same way...kirtaniya sada hari
and param vijayate sri-krishna-sankirtanam all glories to chanting the Mahamantra
your humble servant
Payonidhi das
http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/kali-santarana-upanisad-and