Satsvarupa Maharaja response to chant 64 rounds and my response

[Paramananda das]

Subject: Satsvarupa Maharaja response to chant 64 rounds and my response


dear devotees
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I send Satsvarupa Maharaja the quotes from sastra about 64 rounds ,this is his response and mine is below his:
Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami sent you a message.

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Re: for the inspiration of devotees in ISKCON part 1

Some of the Gaudiya Vaisnava acharyas are known for chanting many rounds of Hare
Krishna mantra on beads. Foremost is Namacharya Haridasa Thakura, who chanted
three hundred thousand names a day. Raghunatha dasa Goswami used to chant a
hundred thousand names a day, and other Vaisnavas also spend great quantities of
time on their beads. When Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura formed his Gaudiya
Math, he required his initiates to chant sixty-four rounds a day—a feat which
takes quite a few hours. Nevertheless, he considered it so important that he
made it a requirement. When His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Prabhupada came to America, he saw that the young men and women were not capable
of such sustained chanting. There is a famous conversation recorded in Srila
Prabhupada-lilamrta between Prabhupada and his young disciple Mukunda dasa.
Prabhupada told Mukunda dasa that he should chant sixty-four rounds, and Mukunda
dasa said he could not do it. Prabhupada asked if he could chant thirty-two
rounds a day. Mukunda dasa said no, he could not do that either. Prabhupada then
asked him, “Can you do sixteen?” Mukunda agreed, and out of this informal
conversation came the institutional requisite for initiation into the Hare
Krishna movement, or ISKCON. Every initiated devotee must chant sixteen rounds.

Some devotees chant more than sixteen rounds; they have vows of seventeen,
eighteen, twenty, twenty-five or thirty-two rounds. Some devotees chant an extra
hour without counting. Some devotees chant sixty-four rounds on Ekadasi and
Janmastami.

Is there any benefit in chanting larger numbers? Yes, there certainly is.
Prabhupada was right in ascertaining that his devotees could not chant
sixty-four rounds every day because they lacked the concentration. Also, he
assigned them so many other duties to do for active preaching. But on several
occasions, he remarked to his disciples in conversations that it would be good
if they could chant more than sixteen rounds. If you chant over sixteen rounds,
you feel like you are doing more than your bare duty. You get extra strength.
You go beyond the period of boredom at chanting “extra,” and enter a stage which
is actually advanced, just like the previous acharyas who chanted many rounds.
So it is good advice to try to chant a little more than the bare sixteen and
make a higher quota for oneself, if at all possible. The benefit will be
self-evident in the good feelings and the strengthening that comes with the
practice.


dear Satsvarupa Maharaja
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
From the day I learned about the holy name I always chanted more, and some times devotees would say chant less, do more service, I was always doing service , they felt threatened even that someone would chant more than 16 rounds.
There is a conversation where Srila Prabhupada was asked by one leader that these devotees are chanting more than 16 rounds and the tone was critical, Srila Prabhupada was however disagreeing , no that should be encouraged was his response, more chanting is always better.
But Srila Prabhupada mentions in this conversation to fix up even number beyond 16 ,and keep it and gradually increase that and fix a new number say 25 or 32 etc.If you read Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupadas quotes about chanting 64 rounds, you can see he was not compromising, he compared those who chanted less than 64 to non devotees, and states one can not become free from Jnana and karma unless one chants minimum 64.Srila Prabhupada did try to introduce 64 rounds and yes Mukunda Maharaja rejected it .However I see it that as his
insincerity to chant more than 16 rounds rounds has cost many devotees to not get the benefit that comes with chanting 64 rounds .The actual standard according to for example Prema Vilasa is 192 rounds as chanted by Srila Haridasa Thakura, however Lord Caitanya set the standard to be minimum 64 .This coming from the Supreme Lord ,makes it an absolute standard.
With all respect to api ced sudaracaro....you have fallen down yourself from sannyasa with another mans wife, and in the words of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja and Bhaktivinoda Thakura this is the symptoms of a kali chela..he wears tilak but has illicit sex with someone else's wife. However still you have chosen to stay a sannyasi..and even gotten the GBC and sannyasa ministries blessings .
However I can not agree with this as there has never been a sannyasi in our Gaudiya line having had illicit sex with a woman ,and still remaining a sannyasi.Thus you have introduced another deviation.Srila Prabhupada has mentioned in the purport in the 9 canto that a sannyasi that falls down should get married.
Actually Bhavananda was even more shameless engaging in homo sex and remaining a sannyasi. These fall downs can be understood when we see one does not chant 64 rounds.Especailly for a sannyasi that has little practical service often, 64 rounds is very easy to chant.
Many years on sankirtana I mostly chanted 32 rounds in the morning and often another 16 or 32 at night, and distributed Srila Prabhupadas books all day long, except for when I had to read Srila Prabhupadas books 2 to 4 hours.Thus in my humble opinion it is better to not have entered sannyasa in the first place if one is not chanting 64 rounds.Because those who do not understand why they have to chant 64 rounds are already fallen, these are the words of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada that surely would never have given sannyasa to those who chant only 16 rounds.Srila Prabhupada did.Some of his early disciples as early as 1968 desired to become Gurus ,Srila Prabhupada ask this person to refrain from thinking like this.So by 1977 when Srila Prabhupada left , the 12 acaryas where there ready to accept worship on the platform of
uttama adhikaris..keeping in mind they are still only chanting 16 rounds,Put the 2 together and it is a formular of many problems.Yes many sincere and serious devotees have fallen, had they chanted 64 rounds as introduced by Srila Prabhupada in the early days ,this would most likely never had happened.(added with some caution in dealing with women and money)
Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupadas disciples in many cases stopped chanting 64 rounds after he left this world , the rest is history .And still even not
chanting 64 rounds some of these disciples have allowed themselves to be placed in Samadhis.Srila Prabhupadas dear godbrothers the 2 Puri Maharajas was chanting 64 rounds, and so was Bhakti Prajana Kesava Maharaja.
I also went to Narayana Maharaja(1988 and 89) even before you and Giriraja Swami and others went there, and the first advise Maharaja gave me was to chant 64 rounds without fail.Actually Naryaana Maharaja never told you and any of these devotees to see him as a siksa Guru, he just gave you all friendly advise, and I feel you and other ISKCON sannyasis that went there during this time in early 90th need to acknowledge this.(there is still recordings from your all meeting with him during this time)..he never tried to take Srila Prabhupadas place.
I am not sure if he advised you all the same, but this is what he learned from his Guru Maharaja to chant 64 rounds, and Bhakti prajana Kesava Maharaja also never failed to chant 64 rounds.Srila Prabhupada also told Tamal Krsna Maharaja that he used to chant 64 rounds .Here is some references:
Shrila Prabhupada on Laksha Naam

Morning Walk, May 14, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): Shrila Prabhupada, how can the position be reconciled if in Krishna consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be separation then?

Prabhupada: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means not advanced in Krishna consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in Krishna consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That is the test. Bhaktih pareshanubhavo viraktir anyatra ca [SB 11.2.42]. The test is, how you are advancing in Krishna consciousness is the proportionate diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the test.

Devotee (1): What if that (material) fever is not being diminished?

Prabhupada: Then he should try to chant Hare Krishna mantra, instead of sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is the minimum. Otherwise Haridasa Thakura was 300,000. So you have to increase. That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult, that determination, "I must be Krishna conscious fully." That determination. Dridha-vratah.

Letter to: Indira (Iris Mendoza), Ekayani (Esther Mendoza), San Francisco, 17 December, 1967:

"I am very glad to learn you are chanting 48 rounds. Actually it is all right that one should chant 64 rounds, even 16 rounds, so if one is able to chant more than 16 rounds up to 64, it is very good. You fix up your rounds. Try to increase it but never decrease it."

Letter to: Hamsaduta, Hawaii, 23 March, 1969

"Yes, it is very good if you can chant 64 rounds; this is very nice if you can do it."

Letter to: Bhaktijana, Los Angeles, 12/2/1968:

"I shall advise you again to chant always, increasing the counting, namely, 16 rounds is generally prescribed, but for the time being you can stop all other activities and increase the chanting to 64 rounds."

Shrimad-Bhagavatam 4.24.70 purport:

That is the instruction given by Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in His Shikshashtaka 3. Kirtaniyah sada harih: [Cc. adi 17.31] "The holy name of the Lord should be chanted twenty-four hours daily." Therefore in this Krishna consciousness movement we request the devotees to chant at least sixteen rounds on their beads daily. Actually one has to chant twenty-four hours daily, just like Thakura Haridasa, who was chanting the Hare Krishna mantra three hundred thousand times daily. Indeed, he had no other business.

Shri Chaitanya-caritamrita Antya-lila 3.137 purport:

Surrender is the ultimate instruction of the Bhagavad-gita, but for one who cannot surrender to the lotus feet of Krishna, it is better to chant the Hare Krishna mantra constantly, under the instruction of Haridasa Thakura.

In our Krishna consciousness movement we are teaching our followers to chant the Hare Krishna mantra continuously on beads. Even those who are not accustomed to this practice are advised to chant at least sixteen rounds on their beads so that they may be trained.[...] Sada means "always." Haridasa Thakura says, nirantara nama lao: "Chant the Hare Krishna mantra without stopping." [...] One's real duty is to surrender to the lotus feet of Krishna, but if one is unable to do so, he should adopt this process, as introduced by Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu and His most confidential servant, Namacarya Shrila Haridasa Thakura. This is the way to achieve success in Krishna consciousness.

The Nectar of Devotion, Vrindavana, 20/10/1972:

"Just like we have asked our students to finish sixteen rounds chanting minimum. Sixteen rounds is nothing. In Vrindavana there are many devotees, they chant 120 rounds. Like that. So sixteen rounds is the minimum. Because I know in the Western countries it is difficult job to finish sixty-four rounds or 120 rounds, like that. Minimum sixteen rounds. That must be finished."

Letter to Purusottama, Mumbai, 23/10/1973:

Because we have got many duties, [text missing] ...ve minimized the amount to 16 rounds, otherwise [text missing] ...minimum is 64 rounds, but Western people cannot [text missing] ...this. So 16 rounds must be executed.

Nectar of Instruction, Verse 5, purport:

The Krishna consciousness movement prescribes sixteen rounds daily because people in the Western countries cannot concentrate for long periods while chanting on beads. Therefore the minimum number of rounds is prescribed. However, Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura used to say that unless one chants at least sixty-four rounds of japa (one hundred thousand names), he is considered fallen (patita). According to his calculation, practically every one of us is fallen, but because we are trying to serve the Supreme Lord with all seriousness and without duplicity, we can expect the mercy of Lord Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who is famous as patita-pavana, the deliverer of the fallen.

Shrila Prabhupada on a Morning Walk, November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Lokanatha: Some devotees have fixed different number than sixteen. Some are chanting twenty minimum or twenty-five.
Prabhupada: Yes. It should be increased.
Lokanatha: Is it recommended for our...
Prabhupada: But don't decrease. Don't decrease; increase. Therefore one number is fixed. "At least this much I shall do." That is sixteen rounds.
Lokanatha: But you are recommending sixteen as a minimum, and some devotees are choosing twenty as a minimum.
Prabhupada: So who forbids? Who says that "Don't do it"?
Lokanatha: They can chant?
Prabhupada: Yes. That is wanted. But because you cannot do it, therefore we have fixed up this minimum. Sankhyata asankhyata Sankhyata means with vow, numerical strength. And asankhyata means there is no limit.

The Hare Krishna Explosion, p. 63, by Hayagriva dasa, Palace Press 1985:

"Now that you have beads," Swamiji says the next morning, "you should chant sixty-four rounds every day."
"Sixty-four rounds?" To pronounce every word of the mantra distinctly, we require five minutes to chant a round. Sixty-four rounds would take over five hours. "Impossible!" we say. "We'll never have the time."
"All right," Swamiji says. "Thirty-two rounds."
"Impossible," we say. "We'll never be able to do it. It's way too much." "All right," Swamiji says. "Sixteen rounds. No less."

TKG's Diary June 10:

Many years ago, he (Shrila Prabhupada) was chanting sixty-four rounds, then gradually less, until a number of years ago it was sixteen.

All quotes of Shrila Prabhupada are copyrighted by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Internationa
One sannyasi and GBC asked me if Srila Prabhupada was chanting 64 rounds:
HH Kavicandra Maharaja asked me this question.

This was my response:
dear Kavicandra Swami
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
Maharaja you asked me the question:Was Srila Prabhupada chanting 64 rounds?
My answer is 2 questions to you: How do you know he did not chant 64 rounds a day?
If he asked devotees at the first initiation to chant 64 rounds, would he be preaching something he did not do himself ?. I can not accept this notion I am sorry.My humble believe is he likely chanted 64 rounds still and he pretended to be like the "rest of the devotees".Only chanting minimum 16.Even if he chanted 64 rounds. I have been told Srila Prabhupada would constantly be chanting when not preaching and writing books never wasting a second in Krsnas service.Even if he only chanted minimum 16 rounds because he was so busy writing and preaching, he was still an uttama adhikari bhakta.And uttama adhikaris are always engaged in hearing and chanting about Radha and Krsna.We see Srila Prabhupada has so much knowledge of the acaryas books as well, certainly he studied them during his life, Nrsimha Maharaja and those ISKCON devotees that went to Sridhara Swami see that Srila Prabhupada was a nitya siddha, that came from Goloka and eternal associate of Lord Caitanya and Nityananda Prabhu.But for us that all come from the conditioned state we should take Srila Prabhupada instruction to chant 64 rounds very seriously, or we can cheat ourselves and say "impossible",This is my understanding and others have different opinions.In Jaiva Dharma we see how advanced Babajis mentioned by Bhaktivinoda Thakura ,where one tells the other I have chanted 64 rounds or 120 rounds for many years, just now I have become a madhyama adhikari.I think this should make us think very carefully.16 rounds is such a bare minimum. Narayana Maharaja told me once, only a fool thinks that 16 rounds is enough to help control the mind, but Mahaprabhu asked for 64 rounds and so did Swamiji.
(Srila Prabhupada) and having considered over time , it is certainly true.We can say oh I am a western and can not chant 64 rounds.
False,we are a spirit souls and eternal servants of Krsna .Impossible is the words in a fools dictionary, Srila Prabhupada said .
Why make it impossible to advance and not chant 64 rounds ( advancement will be much slower chanting less and with less sincerity ) quantity and quality chanting is needed.Puri Maharaja used to say after chanting 64 rounds for many years one should also learn all the books of the acaryas.This he learned from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and followed himself.Kindly consider this sloka also that has come from the pen and lotuslips of Srila Rupa Goswami:
syāt kṛṣṇa-nāma-caritādi-sitāpy avidyā-
pittopatapta-rasanasya na rocikā nu
kintv ādarād anudinaḿ khalu saiva juṣṭā
svādvī kramād bhavati tad-gada-mūla-hantrī
NoI 7: The holy name, character, pastimes and activities of Kṛṣṇa are all transcendentally sweet like sugar candy. Although the tongue of one afflicted by the jaundice of avidyā [ignorance] cannot taste anything sweet, it is wonderful that simply by carefully chanting these sweet names every day, a natural relish awakens within his tongue, and his disease is gradually destroyed at the root.

your humble servant
Paramananda  das


I had one internet discusion with a devotee and this was my response:
Chant 64 rounds and preach:
(this is in response to http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-09/editorials5114.htm)

Srila Prabhupada asked his early disciples to chant 64 rounds.Due to their neophyte stage they did not accept his instruction .I personally believe they did a great disservice and cheated many future devotees from the nectar of taking shelter of the holy name.I know several devotees that not only have given up chanting 16 rounds, chanting gayatri, offering their bhoga, observing ekadasi,and they take grains on Visnutattva apperance days.As a result of such neglect in some cases these devotees children ,end up even eating meat.

Srila Prabhupada was never independent from his GuruMaharaja, and the disciplic succession, those who preach this is under the influence of Karanabhaja sahajiya ideas ,where the Guru is seen as God and independent of previous acaryas.

The fact is if you consider it carefully if devotees had been chanting 64 rounds would so many Gurus had fallen? Or sannaysis? Most likely not.

I joined and helped start ISKCON Denmark in 1979 and would go often alone and sell Srila Prabhupadas books for 8 to 12 hours ,sometimes more (I was just a new bhakta).Even from that time I realized there is no other shelter but the holy name, and would chant extra.This properly saved me from getting married until I was 38 years.I spend 19 years in ISKCON as a bookdistributor.I know all my personal problems in devotional service have always been due to lack of chanting more.In ISKCON we have made 16 rounds into a maximum,Srila Prabhupada never said to do so,But encouraged more and more chanting."Do not remain idle chant Hare Krsna". Srila Prabhupada's complaint with his western disciples was not reading his books enough, fighting among themselves, falling down into illicit sex and not knowing the philosophy of KC.

Now how many devotees are spending 8 hours more a day on the streets preaching? Preaching is down in ISKCON big time.Ask the BBT in NA.How much Harinama is going on every day?I am not advocating to stop preaching.But to preach more.Srila Prabhupada has asked every member of ISKCON to go door to door distributing his books (See SB 7.9.44 purport)

"Rather, every member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is interested in going door to door to try to convince people about the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the purpose of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be fully convinced that without Kṛṣṇa one cannot be happy. Thus the Kṛṣṇa conscious person avoids all kinds of pseudo spiritualists, transcendentalists, meditators, monists, philosophers and philanthropists."

Srila Prabhupada and our acaryas has stated one is Patita unless one chants 64 rounds a day.One will not be abel to get rid of jnana and karma is the statements of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada he has made some very drastic statements about chanting 64 rounds.I have faith in his words if others do, or not it is their problem.

shri gaurasundera balibena-"jini pratidina laksha-nama grahana karibena, tanharai grihe bhagavan sevita hana.

Shri Gaurasundera spoke as follows-"The Supreme Personality of Godhead accepts service only in the home of those who chant one hundred thousand names daily.
"jini laksha-nama grahana karena na, tahara nikate haite bhagavan naivedya svikara-dvara seva-saubhagya pradana karena na.

"Those who don't chant 100,000 names (64 rounds) daily, are never awarded the great fortune of rendering service to the Lord by offering Him naivedya (bhoga). This is because the Lord never accepts (svikara) their offerings.
"bhagavad-bhakta matrei pratyaha laksha-nama grahana karibena natuva vividha visaye asakta haiya bhagavad-seva karite asamartha haibena."

The Lord continued-"Those who consider themselves devotees of the Lord must compulsorily chant 100,000 names of Krishna everyday otherwise they will gradually but surely become attached to varieties of sense-objects and thus become incapable to rendering any kind of service to the Lord."

tajjanyai shri chaitanyadevera ashrita sakalai nyuna kalpe laksha-nama grahana kariya thakena. natuva gaurasunderera udeshya pradatta naivedya tini grahana karibena na.

(Shrila Sarasvati Thakura Prabhupada continues) "Therefore all the devotees who have taken shelter of Lord Chaitanyadeva perform the chanting of a minimum of 100,000 names of Krishna daily as their first and primary duty. Because they know that if they don't do so then Lord Gaurasundera will never accept the very bhoga (naivedya) which they cook for Him daily.

shri chaitanya bhaktagana abhaktera sahita sambhashana karena na. jini bhaktivyatita karma, jnana o anyabhilashara kathaya pradatta tahara sahita bandhutva karibe na.

"The devotees of Lord Shri Chaitanya never talk with such non-devotees. They never do friendship with those who are engaged in the cultivation of karma, jnana or other desires which are devoid of bhakti.



If we want to get the full mercy of Srila Prabhupada and his Guru Maharaja and Lord Nityananda Prabhu we should chant 64 rounds and go on Harinama and bookdistribution, and preach.Tamohara Prabhu I humbly suggest you take these instructions to heart and set a good example,they are not coming from me but Srila Prabhupada and our acaryas and Lord Caitanya Himself.And Srila Prabhupada has suggested to increase ones chanting, so why still only 16 rounds after 30 -40 years? Have we not advanced a little? At least make it 17 rounds then gradually 20-25 ..32 and 64 .As one starts chanting more the rounds become more attentive and one chants much faster. I have noticed when I reach 40 rounds or so and am not distracted I can easy chant a round with all syllabels and names in 5 minutes.I can even now see some light at the end of the tunnel, that our acaryas like Bhaktivinoda Thakura though so busy never failed to chant 64 rounds.Acaryas set the example .. I suggest you try it here in the month of Kartika where Radharanis mercy is a 1000 fold for any service done.One devotee wrote me and thanked me for suggesting to chant 64 rounds and since 3 weeks he is doing so and will continue he writes, his stress, anxiety , and material desires are gone he writes.Another devotee is now chanting 32 rounds, and trying to chant more.I have no credit it is the mercy of Srila Prabhupada ,Lord Nityananda and Sri Nama Prabhu.If we simply become humble like Lord Caitanya ,that stated :" I am fool there fore I chant Hare Krsna on the instruction of my Guru ".If we think we know more than Srila Prabhupada and our acaryas we will never increase the quality and quantity of our chanting.My conviction is all problems will be solved if we start chanting 64 rounds and do at least regular Harinamas in all temples.

As quoted in a previous posting if we chant 64 rounds we will become empowered to preach, these are the words spoken by Lokanatha Das Goswami to Narrotama das Thakura.There is no reason to look for excuses to surrender..we should welcome surrender to Krsna, better late than never...Sa vai manah Krsna padaravidayor..devotional service starts with fixing the mind on Krsna.Time to turn of the TV and chant Hare Krsna...and go on sankirtana

Param Vijyate Sri Krsna Sankirtanam

your humble servant

Paramananda  das

Maharaja I hope I have not offended you in any way ,I do pray to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya ,you may consider chanting 64 rounds, if you do many of your disciples that are greatly stuggeling in their spiritual life will follow such a good example.
 

[Paramananda das]

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=5000