questions about chanting 64 rounds

[Paramananda das]

Dear Payonidhi das,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prahbupada.

Thank you for your submission. Before we publish it, I have a few questions for you, and I"m hoping you can give me just simple, brief answers. (I have read all your articles on this topic.)

1. Do you disagree that Srila Prabhupada instructed his disciples to chant 16 rounds?
2. Can you show us where Srila Prabhupada qualified that instruction by saying "only chant 16 for a certain period of time, then begin chanting 64"?
3. Can you show us where Srila Prabhupada made statements like yours, that we cannot go back to Godhead unless we chant 64 rounds?

Thank you.

Hoping this finds you well,
your servant,

..........dasa






dear ...... das
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
1 ) I agree Srila Prabhupada said not less than minimum 16 rounds , with the empazise on minimum,I do not agree he instructed us to chant only 16.I have posted Srila Prabhupadas desire we try to increase quality and quantity, and there is many quotes in this regard.
2) I have quoted Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada on the importance on this, I believe Srila Prabhupada thought western devotees would maybe be to fallen to chant 64 rounds.I quoted the conversation where Lokantha Swami complained that devotees where chanting more and Srila Prabhupada said but that is good and wanted.Srila Prabhupada tried to engage us the most fallen souls in devotional service.But it is significant that at the early initiations he tried to introduce 64 rounds, and 16 is a concession really.If you see Srila Prabhupada in the line of all the acaryas and Lord Caitanya Himself asking us to chant 64 rounds it makes sense. There is so many quotes Srila Prabhupada asks for constant chanting, in his book ,lectures, morning walks etc.there is the one lecture of Nectar of devotion and he says one should be chanting 64 rounds or 120 ,but for westerns this is a bit difficult.So I agree Srila Prabhupada did not put pressure on this,he was concerned about many things.When this one devotee had trouble he advised please just chant 64 rounds for now.64 rounds is really the Gaudiya standard, if someone chants minimum 16 rounds and follows 4 regs I believe they can go back to Godhead, because Srila Prabhupada allowed it.there is a purport where Srila Prabhupada says his GuruMaharaja was very strict about chanting 64 rounds, and anyone that does not is Patita..and it really seems that somehow Srila Prabhupada is hoping we will get Krsnas mercy.(it is in Nectar of instruction, I believe I quoted it beforte also)
3 I would never say one can not go back to Godhead by only chanting 16 rounds, but if one chants 64 ones bhakti raises to a new level if one is sincere.Everything is individual of course,.But Srila Bhaktisidhanta Prabhupada stated one does not become fully free from the effects of Karma and jnana untill one chants 64 rounds sincerly, another qualifikation is that one gets help from Krsna who is non different from His holy name, to help one understand and realize rasa sastra and the books of the Goswamis, especially this qualifikation is much needed for those serving as Gurus as they need to be fully qualified to bring their disciples back to Godhead.Lokanath das Goswami also states that the empowerment to preach is there by chanting.I understand 64 rounds is not for everyone, but by preaching what I preactise I have seen some results of encouraging some devotees to even start chanting again, this mechanical recitation of 16 rounds without enthusiasme leads to Nama aparadha.
At least if 16 rounds is chanted with attention it has greater potency.Ye yatha mam prapaqdyante.
The more sincere we are the more Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya will reward us with realizations and ability to properly serve.For anyone also eager to understand their eternal relationship to Krsna even in this body, the 64 rounds is imperative.If you see and Study Harinama Cintamani tht is there, also in the Jaiva Dharma.The point of the article is that those who are leaders in ISKCON can not give Krsna if they do not have Krsna.On top of that many leaders fell down and properly still are.Properly you will agree for a sannyasi that has no job and no mundane obligation why they should not chant 64 rounds? And for those who are GBC too, you yourself quoted Srila Prabhupada on the great responsibility about being a GBC..I listen to that often ( the GBC that was cursed to become a sudra).There is a second part to this article.I will send you also.Please publish as you like or not as you see fit.I hope by preaching in this way ,I am helping the GBC's and sannyasis from further mistakes, and for those devotees that are advanced, if they try to chant 64 rounds they will see how it really works.It incraeses remembrance of Krsna and makes life so much sweeter.There is no higher gift than the holy name.Srila Prabhupada came to give it on behalf of Lord Caitanya.My point of this article also is if we preach about something,let it especailly be about the holy name, how we all can better chant, if someone are satisfied with chanting 16 rounds and believe that is enough,then I am not objecting, or finding faults with that,some have many responsibilities.To ne this chant is my first duty to Srila Prabhupada ,my worship reading his books then preaching.First we also have to save ourself first.In a world full of raja and tamaguna 64 rounds is better than 16.
your servant
Payonidhi das
I will send the second part too ,I hope noone will think I am their enemy over preaching like this,this is not my intention to make enemies.It is a fact sannyasis that chant 64 rounds do not fall down, I have never heard about it..though I am sure it could happen...I hope this satisfie your questions.I will gladly look for further quotes.Or if you have any questions...I will try my best to answer.

[Paramananda das]

This is my second response to Rocana yesterday ,that asked me about 64 rounds


dear Rocana Prabhu
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

this is a better answer to your questions

1. Do you disagree that Srila Prabhupada instructed his disciples to chant 16 rounds?

my response:

He asked them to chant 64 rounds, they said no.One should never envy the spiritual master because of the envy of not following this instruction from Srila Prabhupada many other things do not fall in place.(Guru avajya)

you asked:
2. Can you show us where Srila Prabhupada qualified that instruction by saying "only chant 16 for a certain period of time, then begin chanting 64"?

my response:

No need to answer this he asked "You chant 64 rounds"

3. Can you show us where Srila Prabhupada made statements like yours, that we cannot go back to Godhead unless we chant 64 rounds?

my response:

Can you show me any statements that says you get free from karma and jnana, when you only chant 16 rounds,Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada indicadet one is like a non devotee untill one does chant 64 rounds and the true qualities of a vaisanva does not manifest, untill one chants 64 rounds ,can you prove Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada wrong?In Gaudiya Math Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada asked for 64 some only chant 4 ,so Srila Prabhupada at least got a minimum of 16 rounds out of everyone... Lord Caitanya the Supreme personality of Godhead asked for 64 rounds.....

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 11.17.27
ācāryaḿ māḿ vijānīyān
nāvanmanyeta karhicit
na martya-buddhyāsūyeta
sarva-deva-mayo guruḥ

TRANSLATION
One should know the ācārya as Myself and never disrespect him in any way. One should not envy him, thinking him an ordinary man, for he is the representative of all the demigods.

If there is no chanting of 64 rounds, Kali will easy come and ISKCON will be full of "Veni Madhavas" ,see Jaiva dharma about this character ( we have had several persons like that)

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.1.2
dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāḿ satāḿ
vedyaḿ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaḿ tāpa-trayonmūlanam
śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiḿ vā parair īśvaraḥ
sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt

TRANSLATION
Completely rejecting all religious activities which are materially motiva ted, this Bhāgavata Purāṇa propounds the highest truth, which is understandable by those devotees who are fully pure in heart. The highest truth is reality distinguished from illusion for the welfare of all. Such truth uproots the threefold miseries. This beautiful Bhāgavatam, compiled by the great sage Vyāsadeva [in his maturity], is sufficient in itself for God realization. What is the need of any other scripture? As soon as one attentively and submissively hears the message of Bhāgavatam, by this culture of knowledge the Supreme Lord is established within his heart.

16 rounds are good for new devotees, but not for devotees that has been around for 30 -40 years..why be content with so little?

That is cheating religion Kaitava Dhama..cheating religion
My question is why will you not accept that 64 rounds is what Lord Caitanya came to give?And try for it?What do you have to loose?
if we loose our anarthas and ahankara what is the lose? I believe devotee that at least do not try to chant more than 16 rounds are cheating themselves of the greatest nectar, in my heart I can still think they are by far more advanced than me, and I have to learn something from them.I can respect someone that chant Hare Krsna even one time.Why can we not take the advise of our acaryas to chant 64 rounds? And from Srila Prabhupada? Are you denying he ever asked for 64 rounds? Please do not cheat yourself and others in this way...the holy name is the only cure.Do you really think Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada is wrong when he says one is Pattita untill one chants 64 rounds?Please take it from him....He is your Param Gurudeva.


your servant
Payonidhi das