Lord Caitanya the supreme editor

[Paramananda das]

Lord Caitanya the supreme editor


dear devotees
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I had a longer talk with Dravida Prabhu some time back about the editing and certainly they have edited many mistakes, that are obvious mistakes. However the fear that I and many have is, the original books of Srila Prabhupada may get lost in time. And further and further editing will water down the original message some are even now pushing that things be taken out of Prabhupadas books, what guaranties do I have in even 50 years ,more and more changes will not take place?We see many are very eager to edit Srila Prabhupadas books, but hardly one person will sacrifice time to distribute Srila Prabhupadas books ,even among senior devotees, they just think they are to important and to "powerful for this" ,and that book distribution is for a few neophyte fanatics .I have never seen Dravida Prabhu or Jayadvaita Swami sell even one book,so why should I trust them?Ok say I trust them as I do, and know they mean well, and there is many right things about editing Prabhupadas books ,how about this verse.

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo
yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api
nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ńkitāni yat
śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

TRANSLATION
On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest

Even though imperfectly composed, ok so Jayadvaita Swami and Dravida Prabhu has now "perfectly composed Prabhupadas books",? And I am giving them credit for what they have done, now say I have so much faith in this verse and many devotees do, and are happy with what Srila Prabhupada left us in 1977, I know when I read Prabhupadas Bhagavad Gita as it is ,in 1977 in German ,I had no problem
understanding and accepting the teachings or the first Danish editions of Isopanisad,Krsna book and Vedic philosophy in 1978 .These books made me a devotee ,and I vowed before becoming a devotee,one day I like to spend my whole life distributing these books and try to do nothing else,and here 30 years later, my only regret is to have not done more in this service .And believe me I have tried hard and sacrificed a lot, even refusing a person that have been GBC chairmen to go and collect for him,and sell paintings.Some persons spend
1 year or 2 months distributing Prabhupadas books and are still boasting about it .Personally I am ready to spend this and many lives to come only distributing Prabhupadas books.So I have right to my opinion. I have asked Jayadvaita Swami on his website why not also allow, Prabhupadas unedited books, but I am not fit for a response because,I do not kiss up to him like everyone else.?I have corrected him when he said Muslim religion is equal to Krsna consciousness in Vrindavana, BhaktivinodaThakura never stated like this.He said real religion only starts with the proper concept of Krsnas form ,qualities and teachings are understood.Muslim religion is Upadharma.
When I asked him about a Bhagavad Gita vers, and some sublte meanings seemed lost to me.He stated that the demigods never derive benefit from the sacrifices of the demigods, I proved him wrong based on examples from the Bhagavatam.He in the past did not accept that Lord Narasimha appeared at Ahovalam ,as some other persons have speculated also.This is however confirmed in Ahovalam Mahatmya ,Brahmanda Purana and many places,and by all acaryas.We will later present this sastra praman with the completion of the Narasimha book I am working on.My point is we are fallible beings, I make tons of mistakes as does Jayadvaita Swami.If he thinks he is above mistakes....he is in deep illusion .There is a rotten mentality among some that claim to be Gurus that is they never make mistakes ,and we have seen recently one sannyasi and Guru in ISKCON embracing a female disciple, and a rascal godbrother defended him that he is better than millions of other souls.Such behavior is very bad
BG 15.15: I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas, I am to be known. Indeed, I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.
BG 15.16: There are two classes of beings, the fallible and the infallible. In the material world every living entity is fallible, and in the spiritual world every living entity is called infallible.
BG 15.17: Besides these two, there is the greatest living personality, the Supreme Soul, the imperishable Lord Himself, who has entered the three worlds and is maintaining them.
Yes Jaydvaita Swami is right Hansadutta as heading up the unedited version of Prabhupadas books is a rotten idea
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/12-09/editorials5493.htm. So why not allow the unedited books to be printed by the BBT?
I have written a letter to Jaydvaita Swami but because I was not initiated by Srila Prabhupada he thinks I am not good enough to answer?

http://nimaipandit.ning.com/profiles/blogs/email-to-jayadvaita-swami

dear Jayadvaita Swami
Please accept my humble obaisences
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
I have read the BBT editorial policies and talked with Dravida Prabhu ,and I personally understand the changes made.However personally many devotees and myself included still prefer to read and distribute the "original books by Srila Prabhupada".They have made the most devotees, myself included and I prefer them.In the conversation with Kesava Kasmiri.Lord Caitanya never suggested editing the "mistakes of the acaryas".I am not saying this to find fault in the job you and Dravida have done.But many devotees prefere the older version and will not change their view, just as no one can move the Himalayas .The problem is this, since the BBT is not selling the original versions that forces myself and others to buy books from other sources than the BBT.And I would prefere to buy my books from the BBT.When I am in an ISKCON temple,I have no option what books to distribute.But as long as I am a grhastha and live outside the temple I will continue to distribute Srila Prabhupadas original books maybe for another 10 to 20 years.My humble suggestion is the BBT allow, both versions.( Or better only the original version)

Does this make any sense to you, it does to me and many others that is also forced to buy Prabhupadas books somewhere else.
your humble servant
 Paramananda das
I can get the BBT lots of "more business" from myself and others if the BBT will agree to this .Buying books from the competition to the BBT just does not seem right, but if the original books is not there..then what choice is there?

Lord Caitanya pointed out mistakes in the Kesava Kasmiris poetry..he is actually Nimbarkacarya himself that appeared in this Lila, after meeting Lord Caitanya he wrote amazing vaisnava commentaries to for example Bhagavat Gita in the Kumara sampradaya http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/

Lord Caitanya stated:
bhavabhūti, jayadeva, āra kālidāsa
tāń-sabāra kavitve āche doṣera prakāśa
CC Ādi 16.101: "Even in the poetic compositions of such great poets as Bhavabhūti, Jayadeva and Kālidāsa there are many examples of faults.

So Lord Caitanya never stated go edit the books of these acaryas like Jayadeva Goswami, surely Lord Caitanya could have given intelligence to the Kesava Kasmiri who was his dear devotee (do not be fooled by this lila, because Kesava Kasmiri is Nimbarkacarya himself that had previously prayed to take birth during Mahaprabhus lilas)

tomāra kavitva yena gańgā-jala-dhāra
tomā-sama kavi kothā nāhi dekhi āra
"Your poetic skill is like the constant flow of the waters of the Ganges. I find no one in the world who can compete with you.

Lord Caitanya was not just flattering Kesava Kasmiri.So remembering these slokas and understanding CC Adi lila 16.101 and SB 1.5.11

Srila Prabhupada:


The thoughts and the effects of such revolutionary literature are required. Not the grammatical. The so-called rascals, they are concerned with the grammatical. But those who are actually worker, they are concerned with the thoughts…
Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 1.5.11
Jaipur, January 19, 1972

HH Jayadvaita Swami and Dravida Prabhu are devotees I know and respect as well as many devotees in ISKCON do,and I understand what he and Jaydvaita Swami has tried to do,and respect that..so all I am saying the above quote is not for them.They should never be seen as rascals as some do in this editing dispute.
All I am saying is the BBT should please print both versions so we do not have to buy books outside of BBT.This is not an ordinary discussion so we must remember this one sloka:
ARCYE VISNAU SILADHIR GURUSU NARAMATIR VAISNAVE JATI BUDDHIR VISNOR VA VAISVAVANAM KALIMALA MATHANE PADA TIRTHE'MBU BUDDHIH SRI VISNOR NAMNI MANTRE SAKALA KALUSA HE SABDA SAMANYA BUDDHIR VISNAU SARVESVARA ISE TAD ITARA SAMADHIR YASYA VA NARAKI SAH (SRI PADYAVALI-114, BHAGAVAD-DHARMA TATVAM)
Any person who thinks that the Deity of the Supreme Lord is an ordinary stone, that the genuine spiritual master is an ordinary person, that a devotee of the Lord is coming from a particular caste and creed, that the water which has washed the lotus feet of Lord Visnu or a Vaisnava devotee of the Lord is ordinary water and that the holy name of the Lord is an ordinary hymn and that the Lord of all lords, the Supreme Lord Sri Visnu's name is equal to all other demigods is certainly a resident of hell.

and in light of SB 7.9.44 purport .Srila Prabhupada has stressed it is the duty of all members in ISKCON to distribute his books from ABC to GBC.Whatever version we prefere should not be an issue to divide us.Lets respect both and let those who want to distribute Prabhupadas original books not be demonized ,nor those who distribute the edit versions ,all are sincere servants of Srila Prabhupada.Those who distribute Srila Prabhupadas books are my real friends,as are those who live by them.(only a fool and lazy person after reading Prabhupadas books will not want to distribute them).I beg forgivness for my straight forward dealing,everyone that knows me well, know I am not dishonest, and am trying hard to please Srila Prabhupada, and I know all the devotess I am adressing is also.
,your servant
Payonidhi das.
. .

CC Ādi 16.29: Coincidentally, Keśava Kāśmīrī Paṇḍita came there. While offering his prayers to mother Ganges, he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
CC Ādi 16.30: The Lord received him with adoration, but because Keśava Kāśmīrī was very proud, he talked to the Lord very inconsiderately.
CC Ādi 16.31: "I understand that You are a teacher of grammar," he said, "and that Your name is Nimāi Paṇḍita. People speak very highly of Your teaching of beginners' grammar.
CC Ādi 16.32: "I understand that You teach Kalāpa-vyākaraṇa. I have heard that Your students are very expert in the word jugglery of this grammar."
CC Ādi 16.33: The Lord said, "Yes, I am known as a teacher of grammar, but factually I cannot impress My students with grammatical knowledge, nor can they understand Me very well.
CC Ādi 16.34: "My dear sir, whereas you are a very learned scholar in all sorts of scriptures and are very much experienced in composing poetry, I am only a boy — a new student and nothing more.
CC Ādi 16.35: "Therefore I desire to hear your skill in composing poetry. We could hear this if you would mercifully describe the glory of mother Ganges."
CC Ādi 16.36: When the brāhmaṇa, Keśava Kāśmīrī, heard this, he became still more puffed up, and within one hour he composed one hundred verses describing mother Ganges.
CC Ādi 16.37: The Lord praised him, saying, "Sir, there is no greater poet than you in the entire world.
CC Ādi 16.38: "Your poetry is so difficult that no one can understand it but you and mother Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning.
CC Ādi 16.39: "But if you explain the meaning of one verse, we can all hear it from your own mouth and thus be very happy."
CC Ādi 16.40: The Digvijayī, Keśava Kāśmīrī, inquired which verse He wanted explained. The Lord then recited one of the one hundred verses Keśava Kāśmīrī had composed.
CC Ādi 16.41: "'The greatness of mother Ganges always brilliantly exists. She is the most fortunate because she emanated from the lotus feet of Śrī Viṣṇu, the Personality of Godhead. She is a second goddess of fortune, and therefore she is always worshiped both by demigods and by humanity. Endowed with all wonderful qualities, she flourishes on the head of Lord Śiva.'"
CC Ādi 16.42: When Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him to explain the meaning of this verse, the champion, very much astonished, inquired from Him as follows.
CC Ādi 16.43: "I recited all the verses like the blowing wind. How could You completely learn by heart even one among those verses?"
CC Ādi 16.44: The Lord replied, "By the grace of the Lord someone may become a great poet, and similarly by His grace someone else may become a great śruti-dhara who can memorize anything immediately."
CC Ādi 16.45: Satisfied by the statement of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the brāhmaṇa [Keśava Kāśmīrī] explained the quoted verse. Then the Lord said, "Now kindly explain the special qualities and faults in the verse."
CC Ādi 16.46: The brāhmaṇa replied, "There is not a tinge of fault in that verse. Rather, it has the good qualities of similes and alliteration."
CC Ādi 16.47: The Lord said, "My dear sir, I may say something to you if you will not become angry. Can you explain the faults in this verse?
CC Ādi 16.48: "There is no doubt that your poetry is full of ingenuity, and certainly it has satisfied the Supreme Lord. Yet if we scrutinizingly consider it we can find both good qualities and faults."
CC Ādi 16.49: The Lord concluded, "Now, therefore, let us carefully scrutinize this verse."The poet replied, "Yes, the verse You have recited is perfectly correct.
CC Ādi 16.50: "You are an ordinary student of grammar. What do You know about literary embellishments? You cannot review this poetry because You do not know anything about it."
CC Ādi 16.51: Taking a humble position, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Because I am not on your level, I have asked you to teach Me by explaining the faults and good qualities in your poetry.
CC Ādi 16.52: "Certainly I have not studied the art of literary embellishments. But I have heard about it from higher circles, and thus I can review this verse and find in it many faults and many good qualities."
CC Ādi 16.53: The poet said, "All right, let me see what good qualities and faults You have found."The Lord replied, "Let Me speak, and please hear Me without becoming angry.
CC Ādi 16.54: "My dear sir, in this verse there are five faults and five literary ornaments. I shall state them one after another. Kindly hear Me and then give your judgment.
CC Ādi 16.55: "In this verse the fault of avimṛṣṭa-vidheyāḿśa occurs twice, and the faults of viruddha-mati, bhagna-krama and punar-ātta occur once each.
CC Ādi 16.56: "The glorification of the Ganges [mahattvaḿ gańgāyāḥ] is the principal unknown subject matter in this verse, and the known subject matter is indicated by the word 'idam,' which has been placed after the unknown.
CC Ādi 16.57: "Because you have placed the known subject at the end and that which is unknown at the beginning, the composition is faulty, and the meaning of the words has become doubtful.
CC Ādi 16.58: "'Without first mentioning what is known, one should not introduce the unknown, for that which has no solid basis can never be established anywhere.'
CC Ādi 16.59: "In the word 'dvitīya-śrī-lakṣmī' ['a second all-opulent goddess of fortune'], the quality of being a second Lakṣmī is the unknown. In making this compound word, the meaning became secondary and the originally intended meaning was lost.
CC Ādi 16.60: "Because the word 'dvitīya' ['second'] is the unknown, in its combination in this compound word the intended meaning of equality with Lakṣmī is lost.
CC Ādi 16.61: "Not only is there the fault avimṛṣṭa-vidheyāḿśa, but there is also another fault, which I shall point out to you. Kindly hear Me with great attention.
CC Ādi 16.62: "Here is another great fault. You have arranged the word 'bhavānī-bhartṛ' to your great satisfaction, but this betrays the fault of contradiction.
CC Ādi 16.63: "The word 'bhavānī' means 'the wife of Lord Śiva.' But when we mention her husband, one might conclude that she has another husband.
CC Ādi 16.64: "It is contradictory to hear that Lord Śiva's wife has another husband. The use of such words in literature creates the fault called viruddha-mati-kṛt.
CC Ādi 16.65: "If someone says, 'Place this charity in the hand of the husband of the wife of the brāhmaṇa,' when we hear these contradictory words we immediately understand that the brāhmaṇa's wife has another husband.
CC Ādi 16.66: "The statement by the word 'vibhavati' ['flourishes'] is complete. Qualifying it with the adjective 'adbhuta-guṇā' ['wonderful qualities'] creates the fault of redundancy.
CC Ādi 16.67: "There is extraordinary alliteration in three lines of the verse, but in one line there is no such alliteration. This is the fault of deviation.
CC Ādi 16.68: "Although there are five literary ornaments decorating this verse, the entire verse has been spoiled by these five most faulty presentations.
CC Ādi 16.69: "If there are ten literary ornaments in a verse but even one faulty expression, the entire verse is nullified.
CC Ādi 16.70: "One's beautiful body may be decorated with jewels, but one spot of white leprosy makes the entire body abominable.
CC Ādi 16.71: "'As one's body, although well-decorated with ornaments, is made unfortunate by even one spot of white leprosy, so an entire poem is made useless by a fault, despite alliteration, similes and metaphors.'
CC Ādi 16.72: "Now hear the description of the five literary embellishments. There are two ornaments of sound and three ornaments of meaning.
CC Ādi 16.73: "There is a sound ornament of alliteration in three lines. And in the combination of the words 'śrī' and 'lakṣmī' there is the ornament of a tinge of redundancy.
CC Ādi 16.74: "In the arrangement of the first line the letter 'ta' occurs five times, and the arrangement of the third line repeats the letter 'ra' five times.
CC Ādi 16.75: "In the fourth line the letter 'bha' occurs four times. This arrangement of alliteration is a pleasing ornamental use of sounds.
CC Ādi 16.76: "Although the words 'śrī' and 'lakṣmī' convey the same meaning and are therefore almost redundant, they are nevertheless not redundant.
CC Ādi 16.77: "Describing Lakṣmī as possessed of śrī [opulence] offers a difference in meaning with a tinge of repetition. This is the second ornamental use of words.
CC Ādi 16.78: "The use of the words 'lakṣmīr iva' ['like Lakṣmī'] manifests the ornament of meaning called upamā [analogy]. There is also the further ornament of meaning called virodhābhāsa, or a contradictory indication.
CC Ādi 16.79: "Everyone knows that lotus flowers grow in the water of the Ganges. But to say that the Ganges takes birth from a lotus flower seems extremely contradictory.
CC Ādi 16.80: "The existence of mother Ganges begins from the lotus feet of the Lord. Although this statement that water comes from a lotus flower is a contradiction, in connection with Lord Viṣṇu it is a great wonder.
CC Ādi 16.81: "In this birth of the Ganges by the inconceivable potency of the Lord, there is no contradiction although it appears contradictory.
CC Ādi 16.82: "'Everyone knows that lotus flowers grow in the water but water never grows from a lotus. All such contradictions, however, are wonderfully possible in Kṛṣṇa: the great river Ganges has grown from His lotus feet.'
CC Ādi 16.83: "The real glory of mother Ganges is that she has grown from the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu. Such a hypothesis is another ornament, called anumāna.
CC Ādi 16.84: "I have simply discussed the five gross faults and five literary embellishments of this verse, but if we consider it in fine detail we will find unlimited faults.
CC Ādi 16.85: "You have achieved poetic imagination and ingenuity by the grace of your worshipable demigod. But poetry not well reviewed is certainly subject to criticism.
CC Ādi 16.86: "Poetic skill used with due consideration is very pure, and with metaphors and analogies it is dazzling."
CC Ādi 16.87: After hearing the explanation of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the champion poet was struck with wonder. His cleverness stunned, he could not say anything.
CC Ādi 16.88: He wanted to say something, but no reply would come from his mouth. He then began to consider this puzzle within his mind.
CC Ādi 16.89: "This mere boy has blocked my intelligence. I can therefore understand that mother Sarasvatī has become angry with me.
CC Ādi 16.90: "The wonderful explanation the boy has given could not have been possible for a human being. Therefore mother Sarasvatī must have spoken personally through His mouth."
CC Ādi 16.91: Thinking thus, the paṇḍita said, "My dear Nimāi Paṇḍita, please hear me. Hearing Your explanation, I am simply struck with wonder.
CC Ādi 16.92: "I am surprised. You are not a literary student and do not have long experience in studying the śāstras. How have You been able to explain all these critical points?"
CC Ādi 16.93: Hearing this and understanding the paṇḍita's heart, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied in a humorous way.
CC Ādi 16.94: "My dear sir, I do not know what is good composition and what is bad. But whatever I have spoken must be understood to have been spoken by mother Sarasvatī."
CC Ādi 16.95: When he heard this judgment from Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the paṇḍita sorrowfully wondered why mother Sarasvatī wanted to defeat him through a small boy.
CC Ādi 16.96: "I shall offer prayers and meditation to the goddess of learning," the champion concluded, "and ask her why she has insulted me so greatly through this boy."
CC Ādi 16.97: Sarasvatī had in fact induced the champion to compose his verse in an impure way. Furthermore, when it was discussed she covered his intelligence, and thus the Lord's intelligence was triumphant.
CC Ādi 16.98: When the poetic champion was thus defeated, all the Lord's disciples sitting there began to laugh loudly. But Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked them not to do so, and He addressed the poet as follows.
CC Ādi 16.99: "You are the most learned scholar and the topmost of all great poets, for otherwise how could such fine poetry come from your mouth?
CC Ādi 16.100: "Your poetic skill is like the constant flow of the waters of the Ganges. I find no one in the world who can compete with you.
CC Ādi 16.101: "Even in the poetic compositions of such great poets as Bhavabhūti, Jayadeva and Kālidāsa there are many examples of faults.
CC Ādi 16.102: "Such mistakes should be considered negligible. One should see only how such poets have displayed their poetic power.
CC Ādi 16.103: "I am not even fit to be your disciple. Therefore kindly do not take seriously whatever childish impudence I have shown.
CC Ādi 16.104: "Please go back home, and tomorrow we may meet again so that I may hear discourses on the śāstras from your mouth."
CC Ādi 16.105: In this way both the poet and Caitanya Mahāprabhu went back to their homes, and at night the poet worshiped mother Sarasvatī.
CC Ādi 16.106: In a dream the goddess informed him of the Lord's position, and the poetic champion could understand that Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.
CC Ādi 16.107: The next morning the poet came to Lord Caitanya and surrendered unto His lotus feet. The Lord bestowed His mercy upon him and cut off all his bondage to material attachment.
CC Ādi 16.108: The poetic champion was certainly most fortunate. His life was successful by dint of his vast learning and erudite scholarship, and thus he attained the shelter of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
CC Ādi 16.109: Śrīla Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura has described all these incidents elaborately. I have only presented the specific incidents he has not described.
CC Ādi 16.110: The nectarean drops of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's pastimes can satisfy the senses of everyone who hears them.

another issue:   
   we can not even find one sannyasi that will speak out against Satya narayaan pujas still being performed by some initiated ISKCON devotees in the temple, or we have hard time to find anyone that thinks taking grains on Visnutattva apperance days is a sin though sastra like Hari Bhakti Vilasa has stated so.And if they agree they will not speak up against such practices, this is weak and spineless.But another issue.Weddings of non devotees in ISKCON in front of Radha Krsna Prabhuapda would have been furious.Not attending morning programs is in some temples normal.What would Prabhupada have said,he would never have allowed this,these are other matters for ISKCON leaders to solve