seeing through the eyes of scriptures
Dom or No DOM, and is someone trying to be more than Srila Prabhupada?
PAMHO
AGTSP
GBC Resolution of 1975 number 5 states:
“5) Resolved: The selection of GBC members is that Srila Prabhupada will nominate, and if there is a discrepancy, His Grace will change him. There will be no elections, and the present GBC member will remain.”
Akruranath accused me that I wanted to take legal actions against ISKCON this is very false and
offensive,he wrote:
"Why make waves unnecessarily and speak of legal procceedings and so on? At least you should answer: Do you doubt that Srtila Prabhupada actually signed the 1975 GBC resolutions, or do you say that he did not mean to change the election scheme? You should not simply ignore this and cause dissention among the devotee community."
Akruranatha Dasa
Why are you all ignoring the GBC resolution Srila Prabhupada signed in 1975 that said "There will be no elections"?
Do you doubt the authenticity? Do you have some different interpretation? (It seems unambiguous to me).
It may be that you are just not familiar with it. If so, please suspend your judgment until you review the resolution Srila ... See MorePrabhupada personally signed, and also Srila Prabhupada's conversationn on the same topic in May 1977 when he reiterated that those on the GBC should remain unless removed for some discrepancy.
Payonidhi Prabhu I qouoted that GBC resolution for you and you said "good response", but without any explanation you are still ignoring Srila Prabhupada's later wishes expressed in 1975 and 1977 and pretending that he previous direction in 1970 should remain. It is crystal clear that he superceded that direction regarding election of GBCs.
Why make waves unnecessarily and speak of legal procceedings and so on? At least you should answer: Do you doubt that Srtila Prabhupada actually signed the 1975 GBC resolutions, or do you say that he did not mean to change the election scheme? You should not simply ignore this and cause dissention among the devotee community
Payonidhi Das Das
first of all I have never seen such a paper, and secondly even if he signed the paper, he never said that the 1970 and 74 paper is invalid they are legal documents, and in his presence he abandoned election , but what about after his depature.it is not clear at all, and plus with so much corruption on high levels, that a Sannyasi can have so much ... money that he lends it to grhasthas, obviously you must be blind? Why are one GBC covering up for the next ? Why did one GBC sell spiritual sky to make money? So many many questions are there...and to ask them is no longer allowed in ISKCON. The dissention is not created by me but by those who accept salaries and steal from ISKCON etc.Those who allow meat to be cooked at a temple hall ( rented to a firedepartment)The GBC are mostly watered down and seem to not care about anything but their position and making money,and it goes for many TP's as well..why do you think thousands of devotees have left ISKCON..why why why? I can tell you why but you and others will not hear the answer because you and the like are simply blind....actually refuse to see when you have good intelligence.If there was no corruption in ISKCON and no GBC's and sannyasis that had selfishly misused postions in ISKCON fine...Will the GBC allow me to go to all temples with accountants and check their records and see there is no mismangements of funds, in some cases yes in others no...you are crazy I have never talked about legal proccedings....if you repeat such a false accusation one more time ,I will never ever talk to you again or have nothing to do with you.Prove where I said legal proccedings,now you have become a total rascal.....
Yesterday at 11:07am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
ISKCON is not a Nazi society though some have tried in the past to make it into such ,acting totaly opposite Srila Prabhupada to make a buck
Yesterday at 11:10am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
show me where I said legal proceedings or apologize for such vaisnava aparadha..and you need to apologize because I never ever said that,I worship Sudarshan Chakra Salagram sila every day,I swear at His lotusfeet I never said that,now apologize
Previously I wrote"
Akruranath Prabhu patiently explained this, and I thank him for that where as some others wanted to stuff it down my throat without providing the evidence.So I can accept that GBC resolution, but the question remains why would Satsvarupa still go to Srila Prabhupada in 1977 and ask the same question?And Srila Prabhupada seemed to have ignored the... ... question,maybe becaused he really wanted the DOM? So after 1975 did the GBC take over the power really and replaced themselves with all authority ?
Well it is obviously not so,(or is it?)
but Srila Prabhupada never had the legal documents of 1970 and 1974 nullified, so why could we not consider implementing them? And secondly while Srila PRabhupada was present he could choose to replace anyone .But in his absence who has such power?If elections is done locally to replace the TP every 3 years or so as Srila Prabhupada suggested in the DOM, it would limit abuse big time .And the regionally the TP's elect what GBC they want , it makes perfect sense .However since Srila Prabhupada id not enforce the DOM, there is testimony by many older devotees like Trivikrama ,and Basu Ghosh that this systems stands from the1975 GBC resolution .However my question is
with all the financial improprieties, where a GBC. sannyasi and TP can control finances in a temple, and reward themselves a huge salary as is done in ISKCON in some places.The DOM should be still be implement for the welfare of ISKCON and for justice and liberty. ISKCON is a non profit religious organization and as this is being abused, and sometimes philosophical deviations are allowed in ISKCON, such as taking grains on Visnutattva appearance days, the DOM should be implemented if it stops corruption and deviations.If a sannyasi can embrace a woman, have personal bank accounts ,even lend money to disciples then something is wrong....ISKCON is nonprofit, and
if a devotee like myself can be asked to leave a temple because I oppose demigod worship and a TP enriching himself,which was a fact that can be proven ,if the GBC allows Satya Narayana pujas and after the GBC law is passed against it and it still goes on then all such GBC men should resign.
How come a dishonest sannyasi making money of his position is not forced out ? This is corruption.
Thursday at 4:25am · LikeUnlike · 1 person ·
Payonidhi Das Das
The DOM could also harm ISKCON, but how do we get rid of corruption and salary system in ISKCON?
Thursday at 4:28am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
We must obey SP, if we do not we may have all kinds of material success but that does not equate with PREMA BHAKTI
Thursday at 8:31am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
this is what is important, and it will hamper the natural growth of many devotees serving in ISKCON under selfish leaders
Akruranatha Dasa
Okay I wrote a comment to a later message without seing this.
Once we accept that Srila Prabhupada himself decided in 1975 to scrap the GBC election scheme, as far as I am concerned, that should settle the issue.
Besides that, it does not seem evident to me that having 500 TPs from around the world vote every three years on which 35 (or so) of them (how many GBC are there now?) should serve on the GBC would really solve anything or even be practical.... See More
I do not know how to solve all problems in ISKCON, but a rule of thumb is to think globally but act locally, beginning with onesself and those around you. Main thing is we should follow strictly and produce some nice kirtan sound vibration that will help purify things.
We need to keep cool heads and build communities of favorable relationships.
Yesterday at 10:24am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
He said not to have election in his presence, but what about after it, he never said not to, you and others can not prove it...there is plenty evidence both ways and it is not at all clear, to those who want to misuse their positions for money and adoration etc it is very clear, but not for those like myself that has served unselfishly to spread ... KC from minus 30 to 120 plus farenheit distributing Prabhupadas books, it is not clear at all.And it would be better any system that gets rid of corruption , not that this is at all temples, but mostly temples are full of politics, wether you like it or not, and making a picture to the outsiders everything is rosy is an illusion ,you know it ,and I know it.Look at Berkely temple where you are/.....all I am saying is anything that kicks out corruption in ISKCON is welcome, present system or voting, my arguments are balanced but you are simply making personal attacks on me....ISKCON is a religious nonprofit ,it means "NOT FOR PERSONAL PROFIT"..bas
Yesterday at 11:22am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
since we obviously do not agree, no need to discuss it furthe r
Yesterday at 11:25am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
I have discussed with devotees about how Srila Prabhupada best wanted to manage ISKCON, and some do not like my honest opinion
I just want to see ISKCON everywhere be honest and no corruption that is all
and distributing Prabhupadas books,now I am being falsly accused I want to sue ISKCON, such demoniac nonsense
Yesterday at 11:34am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
In 1975, Srila Prabhupada insists on the LA temple entering the DOM as part of the Non Profit documents filed with the state. (The DOM has since been deleted after that time)Why is that?
Satsvarupa: But then, in the event that some present GBC member leaves, either leaves...
Prabhupada: Another should be elected.
HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE CONFUSION!... See More
ELECTED BY WHOM?
London
My Dear Gurudasa,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge reciept of your two letters dated 20 and 26 February, 1970, respectively, and I am so glad to learn that you have been elected president for this year. In India, when there was congress election among the executive members, each year a person was elected president. I think ... ..this system may be followed in our institutions also. Of course it will depend on the local situation, but in a round if each person is given the chance of managing the whole affairs, that means everyone becomes responsible officer.
24th August, 1971
Calcutta
My Dear Jayapataka Maharaja,... See More
{snip}
And who has been appointed treasurer and secretary? The president, secretary and treasurer elected by the members of the center cannot be changed at least for one year; better to continue it for three years. All combined together should be responsible for keeping correct accounts. Giriraja is responsible and he should be made the treasurer. You should remain as president and Acyutananda Swami as secretary. So make arrangements in that way.
{snip}
Hoping this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
I have seen a temple throwing out a good treasurer, because he was so honest and kept great accounting, after he was thrown out the temple within a week he landed a $200.000 a year job,as he is that good....I am not saying all temples have bad treasurers,recently I met the treasurer of ISKCON Juhu, he seems like a really gentelman and very nice devotee, and elderly gentleman, with many years experience in the business world.
this devotee also has made a strong case
http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0009/WD18-6260.html
Direction of Management was created by SrilaPrabhupada himself here is on part of the rest I have posted below: His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, w...hich may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple.
Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.
here is the whole Direction of Management:
INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED
FOUNDER-ACHARYA: HIS DIVINE GRACE
A. C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA
... See More
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT
I, the undersigned, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, disciple of Om Visnupad Paramhansa 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaj Prabhupada, came in the United States in 1965 on September 18th for the purpose of starting Krishna Consciousness Movement. For one year I had no shelter. I was travelling in many parts of this country. Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. Now we have got thirty-four (34) branches enlisted herewith:
Amsterdam, Holland
Atlanta, Georgia..............1476 Oxford Rd. N.E. 30322
Baltimore, Maryland...........1300 N. Calvert St.
Berkeley, California..........2710 Durant Avenue 94704
Berlin, West Germany
Boston, Massachusetts........ 40 N. Beacon St. 02134
Boulder, Colorado.............623 Concord St.
Buffalo, New York.............40 Englewood Ave. 14214
Chicago, Illinois.............2210 N. Halstead St.
Columbus,Ohio.................318East20thAve.43201
Detroit, Michigan.............74 West Forest St. 48201
Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Hamburg, West Germany.........2000 Hamburg 6, Bartelstrasse 65
Honolulu, Hawaii..............2016 McKinley St. 96822
Laguna Beach, California......130 Woodland Drive 92651
London, England...............7 Bury Place, Bloomsbury, W..C. 1
Los Angeles, California.......3764 Watseka Ave. 90034
Montreal, Canada..............3720 Park Ave.
New Vrndavana, W. Virginia....RD 3 Moundsville 26041
New York City, New York...... 61 Second Ave. 10003
Paris, France.................c/o Serge Elbeze, BO 113 Paris 14
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania....416 South 10th St. 19147
Provincetown, Massachusetts...104 Bradford St.
San Diego, California.........3689 Park Blvd.
San Francisco, California.....618 Frederick St. 94117
San Jose, California..........70 Hawthorne Way
Santa Barbara, California ....6654 del Playa, Goleta 93017
Seattle, Washington...........n5516 Roosevelt Way N.E. 98105
St. Louis, Missouri...........4544 LaClede Ave. 63110
Sydney, Australia.............298 Birrell St. Bondi, N.S.W. 2026
Tokyo, Japan..................6-16, 2 Chome Ohhashi, Meguro-Ku
Toronto, Canada...............40 Beverly St., Ontario
Vancouver, Canada.............260 Raymur St., No. 305, B.C.
Washington, D.C...............2015 Q Street N.W. 20009
As we have increased our volume of activities, now I think a Governing Body Commission (hereinafter referred to as the GBC) should be established. I am getting old, 75 years old, therefore at any time I may be out of the scene, therefore I think it is necessary to give instruction to my disciples how they shall manage the whole institution. They are already managing individual centers represented by one president, one secretary and one treasurer, and in my opinion they are doing nice. But we want still more improvement in the standard of Temple management, propaganda for Krishna Consciousness, distribution of books and literatures, opening of new centers and educating devotees to the right standard.
Therefore, I have decided to adopt the following principles and I hope my beloved disciples will kindly accept them. There was a meeting in San Francisco during the Ratha Yatra festival 1970 and many presidents of the centers were present. In that meeting it was resolved that an ad hoc committee be set up to form the constitution which is taken into consideration. My duty was to first appoint twelve (12) persons to my free choice amongst my disciples and I do it now and their names are as follows:
1. Sriman Rupanuga Das Adhikary
2. Sriman Bhagavandas Adhikary
3. Sriman Syamsundar Das Adhikary
4. Sriman Satsvarupa Das Adhikary
5. Sriman Karandhar Das Adhikary
6. Sriman Hansadutta Das Adhikary
7. Sriman Tamala Krsna Das Adhikary
8. Sriman Sudama Das Adhikary
9. Sriman Bali Mardan Das Brahmacary
10. Sriman Jagadisa Das Adhikary
11. Sriman Hayagriva Das Adhikary
12. Sriman Krsnadas Adhikary
These personalities are now considered as my direct representatives. While I am living they will act as my zonal secretaries and after my demise they will be known as Executors.
I have already awarded Sannyas or the renounced order of life to some of my students and they have also got very important duties to perform in this connection. The Sannyasis will travel to our different centers for preaching purpose as well as enlightening the members of the center for spiritual advancement. The Sannyasis will suggest for opening new centers in suitable places and the GBC will take action on it. As was stipulated by the ad hoc committee, the function of the GBC will be as follows with particulars:
PARTICULARS OF THE GOVERNING BODY COMMISSION
"The purpose of the Governing Body Commission is to act as the instrument for the execution of the Will of His Divine Grace. And further,
1. The GBC oversees all operations and management of ISKCON, as it receives direction from Srila Prabhupada and His Divine Grace has the final approval in all matters.
2. His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.
3. The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be re-elected at the end of this period.
4. The chairman is elected by the GBC for each meeting. He has no veto power, but in even of a vote tie, his vote will decide. The same will apply for votes cast by mail between regular meetings.
5. Throughout the year, each of the commissioners will stay with His Divine Grace for one month at a time and keep the other commissioners informed of His Divine Grace's instructions.
6. The primary objective of the GBC is to organize the opening of new Temples and to maintain the established Temples.
7. Advice will be given by the GBC in cases of real property purchases, which will be in the name of ISKCON, INC. (Trucks or other vehicles will be purchased in the name of the local president).
8. Removal of a Temple president by the GBC requires support by the local Temple members.
9. The GBC has no jurisdiction in the publication of manuscripts, which will be handled by a separate committee; profits to be returned to Srila Prabhupada."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So far my books are concerned, I am setting up a different body of management known as the BHAKTIVEDANTA BOOK TRUST. The trustees of this body are also members of the GBC, but their function is not dependent on the GBC. ISKCON Press was created for the exclusive publication of my books and literatures and should be continued in that way. During my absence no one shall live in my apartment.
Witnessed by:
Date July 28th 1970
(Robert F. Corens)
Rupanuga das Adhikary
(William R. Ehrlichman)
Bhagavan das Adhikary
(Kelly Gifford Smith)
Karandhar das Adhikary ACB
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Date July 28th, 1970
At the World Head Quarters
3764, Watseka Avenue
Los Angeles, California 90034
Payonidhi Das Das
this is signed by Srila Prabhupada
Thursday at 7:38am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
one devotee has given strong evidence why some should resign:http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0009/WD18-6260.html
Thursday at 7:40am · LikeUnlike ·
Lenny Sislac
There will be no way that the GBC is saying, oh, you are right, this should be changed as Prabhupada wanted it. No, never!
Unless they get a juridical order accompanied by a solid media campaign, nothing will happen.
Payonidhi Das Das
that is not true, however I am just trying to balance viewpoints on this as it is not as black and white as some think
(OF COURSE I NEVER AGREE WITH LENNY to sue ISKCON)
Payonidhi Das Das
first of all it takes devotees to even know the DOM and discuss these things in ISKCON,there is an present official or (unofficial ?) ISKCON side to the story which is that the GBC can do no wrong and are selfmanifested and elected for life (untill they get removed from their position by the GBC body) or they retire whatever coems first
Thursday at 8:16am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
I am presenting both viewpoints, my point is one way or other there needs to be financial transparency for one
Thursday at 8:18am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
and according to 1975 GBC resolutions it appears Srila Prabhupada does away with the DOM, or does he?These thngs needs to be discussed in a coolheaded fashion to see what is best for ISKCON
Thursday at 8:20am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
Satsvarupa: So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?
Prabhupada: They should remain for good.
Tamala Krsna: They should remain for good.
Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. (Room Conversation, May 28th, 1977)
Thursday at 8:21am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
The main function of the GBC is to simply maintain and spread what has already been given, not to introduce or adjudicate on issues not spoken of by Srila Prabhupada:
Thursday at 8:23am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
HARI BOL! Very nice to see this. I believe very few of us were ever made aware of this important document that Prabhupada wrote specifically for the time when he would be gone... All devotees coming in the line from Prabhupada should know about this.
Thursday at 8:29am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
yes this is my point Prabhu, even many Prabhupada disciples have not seen this
Thursday at 10:48am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
Really, almost none of SP's disciples know of this; and now 33 years after his disappearance, most of them are so far away from the Iskcon institution that they do not care very much. Some have suggested the temple presidents from 1981 should assemble to elect the GBC, as they were in office 3 years after SP's departure and would have been the first grooup to elect the GBC membes.
Thursday at 4:42pm · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
many do not care one way or other, that suggestion sounds crazy to me, but somehow I pray to Srila Prabupada and Lord Caitanya that ISKCON will not become full of deviations as I pray for myself in that way
William G Benedict
Any government, that is not accountable to its constituents is invariably going to get corrupted. Prabhupada knew the nature of human beings perfectly well. He was an expert in business, law, and practical management. For me personally, alleging he overturned the DOM with a simple conversation here or there is senseless. It is not how SP will do ... See Moresomething.
He went to some trouble to have the DOM written, signed, and witnesses and issued a clear command that it be incorporated as part of the legal registrations of the temples.
Why, if he was cancelling the DOM, or modifying it, he will not do it in similarly clear, legal manner? Is that how SP did thing?
We know he was so precise, he kept track of every penny he spent in writing! When he'd visit a temple he'd inspect every detail, every room; he was not an unconscious, lazy, stupid fellow like us.
Yesterday at 3:46pm · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
thank you Prabu , this is also how I see it, Srila Prabhupada would not have written a document of such importance, and called it urgent both in 1970 and 74, and have not nulified it.Now how come so many years later, many Prabhupada disciples even have not heard about the DOM...was there some obstruction in implemeting this by certain selfish and ... powerhungry leaders usin ISKCON for power and money,you bet I think this is the case, as some are defending not voting
with "teeth and nails"...the 1975 GBC resolution is there, but to me Srila Prabhuada is talking about the voting being suspended as long as he is personally present .As no other legal document is written y Srila Prabhupada to overturn the DOM, it it is still in the intererst of ISKCON to implement them.FOr example a TP and a GBC has to be two different persons, one can not be both, this shows such persons holding both positions at once are powerhungry. They will not spread KC but gladly control all money property and men .Basically some are trying to be more than Srila Prabhupada?
All this said this is no attack on ISKCON managers and GBC's ,this is a discussion about the DOM or no DOM,and what is best for ISKCON.There needs to be good leaders always, good GBC's TP's and treasurers, what ever helps spread KC according to Srila Prabhupadas instructons
your humble servant
Payonidhi das
Why does the GBC not allow anyone to bring grivances anymore directly to them...?Centralizing ISKCON?
Here is another valid opinion by one devotee
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-10/editorials6079.htm
another issue is ISKCON bylaws are they there to control and give more power to the TP's and GBC's? How about enforcing that a GBC that does not chant his 16 rounds can not be on the GBC body and if he is a socalled sannysi ,he should put on white and go somewhere and simply chant his minimum 16 rounds ,and give up his false claims of being a Guru and sannyasi and GBC !
AGTSP
GBC Resolution of 1975 number 5 states:
“5) Resolved: The selection of GBC members is that Srila Prabhupada will nominate, and if there is a discrepancy, His Grace will change him. There will be no elections, and the present GBC member will remain.”
Akruranath accused me that I wanted to take legal actions against ISKCON this is very false and
offensive,he wrote:
"Why make waves unnecessarily and speak of legal procceedings and so on? At least you should answer: Do you doubt that Srtila Prabhupada actually signed the 1975 GBC resolutions, or do you say that he did not mean to change the election scheme? You should not simply ignore this and cause dissention among the devotee community."
Akruranatha Dasa
Why are you all ignoring the GBC resolution Srila Prabhupada signed in 1975 that said "There will be no elections"?
Do you doubt the authenticity? Do you have some different interpretation? (It seems unambiguous to me).
It may be that you are just not familiar with it. If so, please suspend your judgment until you review the resolution Srila ... See MorePrabhupada personally signed, and also Srila Prabhupada's conversationn on the same topic in May 1977 when he reiterated that those on the GBC should remain unless removed for some discrepancy.
Payonidhi Prabhu I qouoted that GBC resolution for you and you said "good response", but without any explanation you are still ignoring Srila Prabhupada's later wishes expressed in 1975 and 1977 and pretending that he previous direction in 1970 should remain. It is crystal clear that he superceded that direction regarding election of GBCs.
Why make waves unnecessarily and speak of legal procceedings and so on? At least you should answer: Do you doubt that Srtila Prabhupada actually signed the 1975 GBC resolutions, or do you say that he did not mean to change the election scheme? You should not simply ignore this and cause dissention among the devotee community
Payonidhi Das Das
first of all I have never seen such a paper, and secondly even if he signed the paper, he never said that the 1970 and 74 paper is invalid they are legal documents, and in his presence he abandoned election , but what about after his depature.it is not clear at all, and plus with so much corruption on high levels, that a Sannyasi can have so much ... money that he lends it to grhasthas, obviously you must be blind? Why are one GBC covering up for the next ? Why did one GBC sell spiritual sky to make money? So many many questions are there...and to ask them is no longer allowed in ISKCON. The dissention is not created by me but by those who accept salaries and steal from ISKCON etc.Those who allow meat to be cooked at a temple hall ( rented to a firedepartment)The GBC are mostly watered down and seem to not care about anything but their position and making money,and it goes for many TP's as well..why do you think thousands of devotees have left ISKCON..why why why? I can tell you why but you and others will not hear the answer because you and the like are simply blind....actually refuse to see when you have good intelligence.If there was no corruption in ISKCON and no GBC's and sannyasis that had selfishly misused postions in ISKCON fine...Will the GBC allow me to go to all temples with accountants and check their records and see there is no mismangements of funds, in some cases yes in others no...you are crazy I have never talked about legal proccedings....if you repeat such a false accusation one more time ,I will never ever talk to you again or have nothing to do with you.Prove where I said legal proccedings,now you have become a total rascal.....
Yesterday at 11:07am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
ISKCON is not a Nazi society though some have tried in the past to make it into such ,acting totaly opposite Srila Prabhupada to make a buck
Yesterday at 11:10am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
show me where I said legal proceedings or apologize for such vaisnava aparadha..and you need to apologize because I never ever said that,I worship Sudarshan Chakra Salagram sila every day,I swear at His lotusfeet I never said that,now apologize
Previously I wrote"
Akruranath Prabhu patiently explained this, and I thank him for that where as some others wanted to stuff it down my throat without providing the evidence.So I can accept that GBC resolution, but the question remains why would Satsvarupa still go to Srila Prabhupada in 1977 and ask the same question?And Srila Prabhupada seemed to have ignored the... ... question,maybe becaused he really wanted the DOM? So after 1975 did the GBC take over the power really and replaced themselves with all authority ?
Well it is obviously not so,(or is it?)
but Srila Prabhupada never had the legal documents of 1970 and 1974 nullified, so why could we not consider implementing them? And secondly while Srila PRabhupada was present he could choose to replace anyone .But in his absence who has such power?If elections is done locally to replace the TP every 3 years or so as Srila Prabhupada suggested in the DOM, it would limit abuse big time .And the regionally the TP's elect what GBC they want , it makes perfect sense .However since Srila Prabhupada id not enforce the DOM, there is testimony by many older devotees like Trivikrama ,and Basu Ghosh that this systems stands from the1975 GBC resolution .However my question is
with all the financial improprieties, where a GBC. sannyasi and TP can control finances in a temple, and reward themselves a huge salary as is done in ISKCON in some places.The DOM should be still be implement for the welfare of ISKCON and for justice and liberty. ISKCON is a non profit religious organization and as this is being abused, and sometimes philosophical deviations are allowed in ISKCON, such as taking grains on Visnutattva appearance days, the DOM should be implemented if it stops corruption and deviations.If a sannyasi can embrace a woman, have personal bank accounts ,even lend money to disciples then something is wrong....ISKCON is nonprofit, and
if a devotee like myself can be asked to leave a temple because I oppose demigod worship and a TP enriching himself,which was a fact that can be proven ,if the GBC allows Satya Narayana pujas and after the GBC law is passed against it and it still goes on then all such GBC men should resign.
How come a dishonest sannyasi making money of his position is not forced out ? This is corruption.
Thursday at 4:25am · LikeUnlike · 1 person ·
Payonidhi Das Das
The DOM could also harm ISKCON, but how do we get rid of corruption and salary system in ISKCON?
Thursday at 4:28am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
We must obey SP, if we do not we may have all kinds of material success but that does not equate with PREMA BHAKTI
Thursday at 8:31am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
this is what is important, and it will hamper the natural growth of many devotees serving in ISKCON under selfish leaders
Akruranatha Dasa
Okay I wrote a comment to a later message without seing this.
Once we accept that Srila Prabhupada himself decided in 1975 to scrap the GBC election scheme, as far as I am concerned, that should settle the issue.
Besides that, it does not seem evident to me that having 500 TPs from around the world vote every three years on which 35 (or so) of them (how many GBC are there now?) should serve on the GBC would really solve anything or even be practical.... See More
I do not know how to solve all problems in ISKCON, but a rule of thumb is to think globally but act locally, beginning with onesself and those around you. Main thing is we should follow strictly and produce some nice kirtan sound vibration that will help purify things.
We need to keep cool heads and build communities of favorable relationships.
Yesterday at 10:24am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
He said not to have election in his presence, but what about after it, he never said not to, you and others can not prove it...there is plenty evidence both ways and it is not at all clear, to those who want to misuse their positions for money and adoration etc it is very clear, but not for those like myself that has served unselfishly to spread ... KC from minus 30 to 120 plus farenheit distributing Prabhupadas books, it is not clear at all.And it would be better any system that gets rid of corruption , not that this is at all temples, but mostly temples are full of politics, wether you like it or not, and making a picture to the outsiders everything is rosy is an illusion ,you know it ,and I know it.Look at Berkely temple where you are/.....all I am saying is anything that kicks out corruption in ISKCON is welcome, present system or voting, my arguments are balanced but you are simply making personal attacks on me....ISKCON is a religious nonprofit ,it means "NOT FOR PERSONAL PROFIT"..bas
Yesterday at 11:22am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
since we obviously do not agree, no need to discuss it furthe r
Yesterday at 11:25am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
I have discussed with devotees about how Srila Prabhupada best wanted to manage ISKCON, and some do not like my honest opinion
I just want to see ISKCON everywhere be honest and no corruption that is all
and distributing Prabhupadas books,now I am being falsly accused I want to sue ISKCON, such demoniac nonsense
Yesterday at 11:34am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
In 1975, Srila Prabhupada insists on the LA temple entering the DOM as part of the Non Profit documents filed with the state. (The DOM has since been deleted after that time)Why is that?
Satsvarupa: But then, in the event that some present GBC member leaves, either leaves...
Prabhupada: Another should be elected.
HERE IS THE SOURCE OF THE CONFUSION!... See More
ELECTED BY WHOM?
London
My Dear Gurudasa,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge reciept of your two letters dated 20 and 26 February, 1970, respectively, and I am so glad to learn that you have been elected president for this year. In India, when there was congress election among the executive members, each year a person was elected president. I think ... ..this system may be followed in our institutions also. Of course it will depend on the local situation, but in a round if each person is given the chance of managing the whole affairs, that means everyone becomes responsible officer.
24th August, 1971
Calcutta
My Dear Jayapataka Maharaja,... See More
{snip}
And who has been appointed treasurer and secretary? The president, secretary and treasurer elected by the members of the center cannot be changed at least for one year; better to continue it for three years. All combined together should be responsible for keeping correct accounts. Giriraja is responsible and he should be made the treasurer. You should remain as president and Acyutananda Swami as secretary. So make arrangements in that way.
{snip}
Hoping this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
I have seen a temple throwing out a good treasurer, because he was so honest and kept great accounting, after he was thrown out the temple within a week he landed a $200.000 a year job,as he is that good....I am not saying all temples have bad treasurers,recently I met the treasurer of ISKCON Juhu, he seems like a really gentelman and very nice devotee, and elderly gentleman, with many years experience in the business world.
this devotee also has made a strong case
http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0009/WD18-6260.html
Direction of Management was created by SrilaPrabhupada himself here is on part of the rest I have posted below: His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, w...hich may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple.
Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.
here is the whole Direction of Management:
INTERNATIONAL SOCIETY FOR KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS, INCORPORATED
FOUNDER-ACHARYA: HIS DIVINE GRACE
A. C. BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA
... See More
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DIRECTION OF MANAGEMENT
I, the undersigned, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, disciple of Om Visnupad Paramhansa 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaj Prabhupada, came in the United States in 1965 on September 18th for the purpose of starting Krishna Consciousness Movement. For one year I had no shelter. I was travelling in many parts of this country. Then in 1966, July, I incorporated the Society under the name and style the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, briefly ISKCON. The lawyer was Mr. J. Goldsmith. Gradually the Society increased, and one after another branches were opened. Now we have got thirty-four (34) branches enlisted herewith:
Amsterdam, Holland
Atlanta, Georgia..............1476 Oxford Rd. N.E. 30322
Baltimore, Maryland...........1300 N. Calvert St.
Berkeley, California..........2710 Durant Avenue 94704
Berlin, West Germany
Boston, Massachusetts........ 40 N. Beacon St. 02134
Boulder, Colorado.............623 Concord St.
Buffalo, New York.............40 Englewood Ave. 14214
Chicago, Illinois.............2210 N. Halstead St.
Columbus,Ohio.................318East20thAve.43201
Detroit, Michigan.............74 West Forest St. 48201
Edinburgh, Scotland, U.K.
Hamburg, West Germany.........2000 Hamburg 6, Bartelstrasse 65
Honolulu, Hawaii..............2016 McKinley St. 96822
Laguna Beach, California......130 Woodland Drive 92651
London, England...............7 Bury Place, Bloomsbury, W..C. 1
Los Angeles, California.......3764 Watseka Ave. 90034
Montreal, Canada..............3720 Park Ave.
New Vrndavana, W. Virginia....RD 3 Moundsville 26041
New York City, New York...... 61 Second Ave. 10003
Paris, France.................c/o Serge Elbeze, BO 113 Paris 14
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania....416 South 10th St. 19147
Provincetown, Massachusetts...104 Bradford St.
San Diego, California.........3689 Park Blvd.
San Francisco, California.....618 Frederick St. 94117
San Jose, California..........70 Hawthorne Way
Santa Barbara, California ....6654 del Playa, Goleta 93017
Seattle, Washington...........n5516 Roosevelt Way N.E. 98105
St. Louis, Missouri...........4544 LaClede Ave. 63110
Sydney, Australia.............298 Birrell St. Bondi, N.S.W. 2026
Tokyo, Japan..................6-16, 2 Chome Ohhashi, Meguro-Ku
Toronto, Canada...............40 Beverly St., Ontario
Vancouver, Canada.............260 Raymur St., No. 305, B.C.
Washington, D.C...............2015 Q Street N.W. 20009
As we have increased our volume of activities, now I think a Governing Body Commission (hereinafter referred to as the GBC) should be established. I am getting old, 75 years old, therefore at any time I may be out of the scene, therefore I think it is necessary to give instruction to my disciples how they shall manage the whole institution. They are already managing individual centers represented by one president, one secretary and one treasurer, and in my opinion they are doing nice. But we want still more improvement in the standard of Temple management, propaganda for Krishna Consciousness, distribution of books and literatures, opening of new centers and educating devotees to the right standard.
Therefore, I have decided to adopt the following principles and I hope my beloved disciples will kindly accept them. There was a meeting in San Francisco during the Ratha Yatra festival 1970 and many presidents of the centers were present. In that meeting it was resolved that an ad hoc committee be set up to form the constitution which is taken into consideration. My duty was to first appoint twelve (12) persons to my free choice amongst my disciples and I do it now and their names are as follows:
1. Sriman Rupanuga Das Adhikary
2. Sriman Bhagavandas Adhikary
3. Sriman Syamsundar Das Adhikary
4. Sriman Satsvarupa Das Adhikary
5. Sriman Karandhar Das Adhikary
6. Sriman Hansadutta Das Adhikary
7. Sriman Tamala Krsna Das Adhikary
8. Sriman Sudama Das Adhikary
9. Sriman Bali Mardan Das Brahmacary
10. Sriman Jagadisa Das Adhikary
11. Sriman Hayagriva Das Adhikary
12. Sriman Krsnadas Adhikary
These personalities are now considered as my direct representatives. While I am living they will act as my zonal secretaries and after my demise they will be known as Executors.
I have already awarded Sannyas or the renounced order of life to some of my students and they have also got very important duties to perform in this connection. The Sannyasis will travel to our different centers for preaching purpose as well as enlightening the members of the center for spiritual advancement. The Sannyasis will suggest for opening new centers in suitable places and the GBC will take action on it. As was stipulated by the ad hoc committee, the function of the GBC will be as follows with particulars:
PARTICULARS OF THE GOVERNING BODY COMMISSION
"The purpose of the Governing Body Commission is to act as the instrument for the execution of the Will of His Divine Grace. And further,
1. The GBC oversees all operations and management of ISKCON, as it receives direction from Srila Prabhupada and His Divine Grace has the final approval in all matters.
2. His Divine Grace will select the initial 12 members of the GBC. In the succeeding years the GBC will be elected by a vote of all Temple presidents who will vote for 8 from a ballot of all Temple presidents, which may also include any secretary who is in charge of a Temple. Those 8 with the greatest number of votes will be members for the next term of GBC. Srila Prabhupada will choose to retain four commissioners. In the event of Srila Prabhupada's absence, the retiring members will decide which four will remain.
3. The commissioners will serve for a period of 3 years, and they may be re-elected at the end of this period.
4. The chairman is elected by the GBC for each meeting. He has no veto power, but in even of a vote tie, his vote will decide. The same will apply for votes cast by mail between regular meetings.
5. Throughout the year, each of the commissioners will stay with His Divine Grace for one month at a time and keep the other commissioners informed of His Divine Grace's instructions.
6. The primary objective of the GBC is to organize the opening of new Temples and to maintain the established Temples.
7. Advice will be given by the GBC in cases of real property purchases, which will be in the name of ISKCON, INC. (Trucks or other vehicles will be purchased in the name of the local president).
8. Removal of a Temple president by the GBC requires support by the local Temple members.
9. The GBC has no jurisdiction in the publication of manuscripts, which will be handled by a separate committee; profits to be returned to Srila Prabhupada."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So far my books are concerned, I am setting up a different body of management known as the BHAKTIVEDANTA BOOK TRUST. The trustees of this body are also members of the GBC, but their function is not dependent on the GBC. ISKCON Press was created for the exclusive publication of my books and literatures and should be continued in that way. During my absence no one shall live in my apartment.
Witnessed by:
Date July 28th 1970
(Robert F. Corens)
Rupanuga das Adhikary
(William R. Ehrlichman)
Bhagavan das Adhikary
(Kelly Gifford Smith)
Karandhar das Adhikary ACB
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
Date July 28th, 1970
At the World Head Quarters
3764, Watseka Avenue
Los Angeles, California 90034
Payonidhi Das Das
this is signed by Srila Prabhupada
Thursday at 7:38am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
one devotee has given strong evidence why some should resign:http://www.vnn.org/world/WD0009/WD18-6260.html
Thursday at 7:40am · LikeUnlike ·
Lenny Sislac
There will be no way that the GBC is saying, oh, you are right, this should be changed as Prabhupada wanted it. No, never!
Unless they get a juridical order accompanied by a solid media campaign, nothing will happen.
Payonidhi Das Das
that is not true, however I am just trying to balance viewpoints on this as it is not as black and white as some think
(OF COURSE I NEVER AGREE WITH LENNY to sue ISKCON)
Payonidhi Das Das
first of all it takes devotees to even know the DOM and discuss these things in ISKCON,there is an present official or (unofficial ?) ISKCON side to the story which is that the GBC can do no wrong and are selfmanifested and elected for life (untill they get removed from their position by the GBC body) or they retire whatever coems first
Thursday at 8:16am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
I am presenting both viewpoints, my point is one way or other there needs to be financial transparency for one
Thursday at 8:18am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
and according to 1975 GBC resolutions it appears Srila Prabhupada does away with the DOM, or does he?These thngs needs to be discussed in a coolheaded fashion to see what is best for ISKCON
Thursday at 8:20am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
Satsvarupa: So our first question is about the GBC members. We want to know how long should they remain in office?
Prabhupada: They should remain for good.
Tamala Krsna: They should remain for good.
Prabhupada: Selected men are chosen, so they cannot be changed. (Room Conversation, May 28th, 1977)
Thursday at 8:21am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
The main function of the GBC is to simply maintain and spread what has already been given, not to introduce or adjudicate on issues not spoken of by Srila Prabhupada:
Thursday at 8:23am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
HARI BOL! Very nice to see this. I believe very few of us were ever made aware of this important document that Prabhupada wrote specifically for the time when he would be gone... All devotees coming in the line from Prabhupada should know about this.
Thursday at 8:29am · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
yes this is my point Prabhu, even many Prabhupada disciples have not seen this
Thursday at 10:48am · LikeUnlike ·
William G Benedict
Really, almost none of SP's disciples know of this; and now 33 years after his disappearance, most of them are so far away from the Iskcon institution that they do not care very much. Some have suggested the temple presidents from 1981 should assemble to elect the GBC, as they were in office 3 years after SP's departure and would have been the first grooup to elect the GBC membes.
Thursday at 4:42pm · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
many do not care one way or other, that suggestion sounds crazy to me, but somehow I pray to Srila Prabupada and Lord Caitanya that ISKCON will not become full of deviations as I pray for myself in that way
William G Benedict
Any government, that is not accountable to its constituents is invariably going to get corrupted. Prabhupada knew the nature of human beings perfectly well. He was an expert in business, law, and practical management. For me personally, alleging he overturned the DOM with a simple conversation here or there is senseless. It is not how SP will do ... See Moresomething.
He went to some trouble to have the DOM written, signed, and witnesses and issued a clear command that it be incorporated as part of the legal registrations of the temples.
Why, if he was cancelling the DOM, or modifying it, he will not do it in similarly clear, legal manner? Is that how SP did thing?
We know he was so precise, he kept track of every penny he spent in writing! When he'd visit a temple he'd inspect every detail, every room; he was not an unconscious, lazy, stupid fellow like us.
Yesterday at 3:46pm · LikeUnlike ·
Payonidhi Das Das
thank you Prabu , this is also how I see it, Srila Prabhupada would not have written a document of such importance, and called it urgent both in 1970 and 74, and have not nulified it.Now how come so many years later, many Prabhupada disciples even have not heard about the DOM...was there some obstruction in implemeting this by certain selfish and ... powerhungry leaders usin ISKCON for power and money,you bet I think this is the case, as some are defending not voting
with "teeth and nails"...the 1975 GBC resolution is there, but to me Srila Prabhuada is talking about the voting being suspended as long as he is personally present .As no other legal document is written y Srila Prabhupada to overturn the DOM, it it is still in the intererst of ISKCON to implement them.FOr example a TP and a GBC has to be two different persons, one can not be both, this shows such persons holding both positions at once are powerhungry. They will not spread KC but gladly control all money property and men .Basically some are trying to be more than Srila Prabhupada?
All this said this is no attack on ISKCON managers and GBC's ,this is a discussion about the DOM or no DOM,and what is best for ISKCON.There needs to be good leaders always, good GBC's TP's and treasurers, what ever helps spread KC according to Srila Prabhupadas instructons
your humble servant
Payonidhi das
Why does the GBC not allow anyone to bring grivances anymore directly to them...?Centralizing ISKCON?
Here is another valid opinion by one devotee
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-10/editorials6079.htm
another issue is ISKCON bylaws are they there to control and give more power to the TP's and GBC's? How about enforcing that a GBC that does not chant his 16 rounds can not be on the GBC body and if he is a socalled sannysi ,he should put on white and go somewhere and simply chant his minimum 16 rounds ,and give up his false claims of being a Guru and sannyasi and GBC !
Views: 164
Comment
About
Welcome to
Sastra Caksusa
© 2024 Created by Paramananda das.
Powered by
You need to be a member of Sastra Caksusa to add comments!
Join Sastra Caksusa