The myth of no illicit sex in ISKCON

[Paramananda das]

Dandavat pranams

Jaya Sri Guru,Gauranga , Gandharvika Giridhari

Jaya Srila Prabhupada

When Srila Prabhupada started ISKCON he introduced no illicit sex.Many of his first disciples where even homosexuals.

  Still he allowed them to live in the temple to become KC.Some of them later still engaged in these demoniac acts and some even molested children...

  He also allowed women (in Gaydiya math and any vaisnava asrama in India women do not live with brahmacaries and sannyasis). And when the first ISKCON female asked Prabhupada that there is no facility in the asrama , Srila Prabhupada introduced a brahmacarini asrama.Later Srila Prabhupada married her to a male devotee. Then they got divorced later, he became a sannyasi and later fell into illicit sex with a godsister (who was also a "siksa ("sexi"?) disciple.".

Later I was told by a devotee from BBT how he had an affair with this 'mataji" and it was obvious there was some illicit sex, and when he did not want to marry her.She stole some books  related to important accounting of the temple, and would not return them ...So this socalled BBT person also told me how ,"his former lover" , used to have illlict sex with her husband, as if that justified their illicit sex.

Anyhow so many examples are there. The fact is over the years we have seen so much illicit sex in ISKCON.

A common misconception is also that it is ok for husband and wife to have sex even when it is not for having KC children.

However this is not grhastha life. but grhamedhi life. 

Remarriage and divorce is mainly based on illicit sex. We have seen how attractive women have been left unprotected because men where lusting over them  .This is very common in ISKCON .We have seen TP's chase women even if married, and we once chastised the TP New York in 1990 that why are you chasing 2 women. Later he married one and tried to pass on the other one to me. Because of chewing the chewed.We have seen in Denmark how one TP had illicit sex with different brahmacarinies.And a sankirtana leader in Sweden having illicit sex with a young brahmacarini though married, later divorcing and remarrying a third person.The scandals are many.

yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45)

In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (7.5.30), Prahlāda Mahārāja has said:

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām

adānta-gobhir viśatāḿ tamisraḿ

punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām

"For those who have decided to continue their existence in this material world for the gratification of their senses, there is no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, not by personal endeavor, by instruction from others or by joint conferences. They are dragged by the unbridled senses into the darkest region of ignorance, and thus they madly engage in what is called 'chewing the chewed.' "

http://www.prabhupadavani.org/main/Bhagavatam/502.html

I was once in a temple mainly with "grhasthas" where it was commong to use condoms, one brahmacari was told by a storeowner how some devotees where buying condoms while they where dressed in western cloth. He was treatened with violence and thrown out of the temple. The same grhamedhi temple asked I should marry one of  20 ladies.

There is a myth of no illicit sex in ISKCON and though many are sincere there is a lot of illicit sex going on and this is destroying ISKCON's purity.   ISKCON means no illicit sex  allowed

The Nectar of Instruction 1

vāco vegaḿ manasaḥ krodha-vegaḿ

jihvā-vegam udaropastha-vegam

etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ

sarvām apīmāḿ pṛthivīḿ sa śiṣyāt

SYNONYMS

vācaḥ — of speech; vegam — urge; manasaḥ — of the mind; krodha — of anger; vegam — urge; jihvā — of the tongue; vegam — urge; udara-upastha — of the belly and genitals; vegam — urge; etān — these; vegān — urges; yaḥ — whoever; viṣaheta — can tolerate; dhīraḥ — sober; sarvām — all; api — certainly; imām — this; pṛthivīm — world; saḥ — that personality; śiṣyāt — can make disciples.

TRANSLATION

A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind's demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.

PURPORT

In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (6.1.9-10) Parīkṣit Mahārāja placed a number of intelligent questions before Śukadeva Gosvāmī. One of these questions was: "Why do people undergo atonement if they cannot control their senses?" For instance, a thief may know perfectly well that he may be arrested for his stealing, and he may actually even see a thief arrested by the police, yet he continues to steal. Experience is gathered by hearing and seeing. One who is less intelligent gathers experience by seeing, and one who is more intelligent gathers experience by hearing. When an intelligent person hears from the lawbooks and śāstras, or scriptures, that stealing is not good and hears that a thief is punished when arrested, he refrains from theft. A less intelligent person may first have to be arrested and punished for stealing to learn to stop stealing. However, a rascal, a foolish man, may have the experience of both hearing and seeing and may even be punished, but still he continues to steal. Even if such a person atones and is punished by the government, he will again commit theft as soon as he comes out of jail. If punishment in jail is considered atonement, what is the benefit of such atonement? Thus Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired:

dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāḿ yat pāpaḿ

jānann apy ātmano 'hitam

karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ

prāyaścittam atho katham

[SB 6.1.9]

kvacin nivartate 'bhadrāt

kvacic carati tat punaḥ

prāyaścittam atho 'pārthaḿ

manye kuñjara-śaucavat

[SB 6.1.10]

He compared atonement to an elephant's bathing. The elephant may take a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing? Similarly, many spiritual practitioners chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and at the same time commit many forbidden things, thinking that their chanting will counteract their offenses. Of the ten types of offenses one can commit while chanting the holy name of the Lord, this offense is called nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ, committing sinful activities on the strength of chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Similarly, certain Christians go to church to confess their sins, thinking that confessing their sins before a priest and performing some penance will relieve them from the results of their weekly sins. As soon as Saturday is over and Sunday comes, they again begin their sinful activities, expecting to be forgiven the next Saturday. This kind of prāyaścitta, or atonement, is condemned by Parīkṣit Mahārāja, the most intelligent king of his time. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, equally intelligent, as befitting the spiritual master of Mahārāja Parīkṣit, answered the King and confirmed that his statement concerning atonement was correct. A sinful activity cannot be counteracted by a pious activity. Thus real prāyaścitta, atonement, is the awakening of our dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Real atonement involves coming to real knowledge, and for this there is a standard process. When one follows a regulated hygienic process, he does not fall sick. A human being is meant to be trained according to certain principles to revive his original knowledge. Such a methodical life is described as tapasya. One can be gradually elevated to the standard of real knowledge, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by practicing austerity and celibacy (brahmacarya), by controlling the mind, by controlling the senses, by giving up one's possessions in charity, by being avowedly truthful, by keeping clean and by practicing yoga-āsanas. However, if one is fortunate enough to get the association of a pure devotee, he can easily surpass all the practices for controlling the mind by the mystic yoga process simply by following the regulative principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness — refraining from illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling — and by engaging in the service of the Supreme Lord under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master. This easy process is being recommended by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī.

First one must control his speaking power. Every one of us has the power of speech; as soon as we get an opportunity we begin to speak. If we do not speak about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we speak about all sorts of nonsense. A toad in a field speaks by croaking, and similarly everyone who has a tongue wants to speak, even if all he has to say is nonsense. The croaking of the toad, however, simply invites the snake: "Please come here and eat me." Nevertheless, although it is inviting death, the toad goes on croaking. The talking of materialistic men and impersonalist Māyāvādī philosophers may be compared to the croaking of frogs. They are always speaking nonsense and thus inviting death to catch them. Controlling speech, however, does not mean self-imposed silence (the external process of mauna), as Māyāvādī philosophers think. Silence may appear helpful for some time, but ultimately it proves a failure. The meaning of controlled speech conveyed by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī advocates the positive process of kṛṣṇa-kathā, engaging the speaking process in glorifying the Supreme Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The tongue can thus glorify the name, form, qualities and pastimes of the Lord. The preacher of kṛṣṇa-kathā is always beyond the clutches of death. This is the significance of controlling the urge to speak.

The restlessness or fickleness of the mind (mano-vega) is controlled when one can fix his mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. The Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 22.31) says:

kṛṣṇa — sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra

yāhāń kṛṣṇa, tāhāń nāhi māyāra adhikāra

Kṛṣṇa is just like the sun, and māyā is just like darkness. If the sun is present, there is no question of darkness. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is present in the mind, there is no possibility of the mind's being agitated by māyā's influence. The yogic process of negating all material thoughts will not help. To try to create a vacuum in the mind is artificial. The vacuum will not remain. However, if one always thinks of Kṛṣṇa and how to serve Kṛṣṇa best, one's mind will naturally be controlled.

Similarly, anger can be controlled. We cannot stop anger altogether, but if we simply become angry with those who blaspheme the Lord or the devotees of the Lord, we control our anger in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu became angry with the miscreant brothers Jagāi and Mādhāi, who blasphemed and struck Nityānanda Prabhu. In His Śikṣāṣṭaka Lord Caitanya wrote, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā: "One should be humbler than the grass and more tolerant than the tree." One may then ask why the Lord exhibited His anger. The point is that one should be ready to tolerate all insults to one's own self, but when Kṛṣṇa or His pure devotee is blasphemed, a genuine devotee becomes angry and acts like fire against the offenders. Krodha, anger, cannot be stopped, but it can be applied rightly. It was in anger that Hanumān set fire to Lańkā, but he is worshiped as the greatest devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. This means that he utilized his anger in the right way. Arjuna serves as another example. He was not willing to fight, but Kṛṣṇa incited his anger: "You must fight!" To fight without anger is not possible. Anger is controlled, however, when utilized in the service of the Lord.

As for the urges of the tongue, we all experience that the tongue wants to eat palatable dishes. Generally we should not allow the tongue to eat according to its choice, but should control the tongue by supplying prasāda. The devotee's attitude is that he will eat only when Kṛṣṇa gives him prasāda. That is the way to control the urge of the tongue. One should take prasāda at scheduled times and should not eat in restaurants or sweetmeat shops simply to satisfy the whims of the tongue or belly. If we stick to the principle of taking only prasāda, the urges of the belly and tongue can be controlled.

In a similar manner, the urges of the genitals, the sex impulse, can be controlled when not used unnecessarily. The genitals should be used to beget a Kṛṣṇa conscious child, otherwise they should not be used. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement encourages marriage not for the satisfaction of the genitals but for the begetting of Kṛṣṇa conscious children. As soon as the children are a little grown up, they are sent to our Gurukula school, where they are trained to become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. Many such Kṛṣṇa conscious children are required, and one who is capable of bringing forth Kṛṣṇa conscious offspring is allowed to utilize his genitals.

When one is fully practiced in the methods of Kṛṣṇa conscious control, he can become qualified to be a bona fide spiritual master.

In his Anuvṛtti explanation of Upadeśāmṛta, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura writes that our material identification creates three kinds of urges — the urge to speak, the urge or demands of the mind and the demands of the body. When a living entity falls victim to these three types of urges, his life becomes inauspicious. One who practices resisting these demands or urges is called tapasvī, or one who practices austerities. By such tapasya one can overcome victimization by the material energy, the external potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

When we refer to the urge to speak, we refer to useless talking, such as that of the impersonal Māyāvādī philosophers, or of persons engaged in fruitive activities (technically called karma-kāṇḍa), or of materialistic people who simply want to enjoy life without restriction. All such talks or literatures are practical exhibitions of the urge to speak. Many people are talking nonsensically and writing volumes of useless books, and all this is the result of the urge to speak. To counteract this tendency, we have to divert our talking to the subject of Kṛṣṇa. This is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (1.5.10-11):

na yad vacaś citra-padaḿ harer yaśo

jagat-pavitraḿ pragṛṇīta karhicit

tad vāyasaḿ tīrtham uśanti mānasā

na yatra haḿsā niramanty uśik-kṣayāḥ

"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows. Since the all-perfect persons are inhabitants of the transcendental abode, they do not derive any pleasure there."

tad-vāg-visargo janatāgha-viplavo

yasmin prati-ślokam abaddhavaty api

nāmāny anantasya yaśo 'ńkitāni yat

śṛṇvanti gāyanti gṛṇanti sādhavaḥ

[SB 1.5.11]

"On the other hand, that literature which is full of descriptions of the transcendental glories of the name, fame, forms, pastimes, etc., of the unlimited Supreme Lord is a different creation, full of transcendental words directed toward bringing about a revolution in the impious lives of this world's misdirected civilization. Such transcendental literatures, even though imperfectly composed, are heard, sung and accepted by purified men who are thoroughly honest."

The conclusion is that only when we talk about devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead can we refrain from useless nonsensical talk. We should always endeavor to use our speaking power solely for the purpose of realizing Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

As for the agitations of the bickering mind, they are divided into two divisions. The first is called avirodha-prīti, or unrestricted attachment, and the other is called virodha-yukta-krodha, anger arising from frustration. Adherence to the philosophy of the Māyāvādīs, belief in the fruitive results of the karma-vādīs, and belief in plans based on materialistic desires are called avirodha-prīti. Jñānīs, karmīs and materialistic planmakers generally attract the attention of conditioned souls, but when the materialists cannot fulfill their plans and when their devices are frustrated, they become angry. Frustration of material desires produces anger.

Similarly, the demands of the body can be divided into three categories — the demands of the tongue, the belly and the genitals. One may observe that these three senses are physically situated in a straight line, as far as the body is concerned, and that the bodily demands begin with the tongue. If one can restrain the demands of the tongue by limiting its activities to the eating of prasāda, the urges of the belly and the genitals can automatically be controlled. In this connection Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says:

śarīra avidyā jāla, jaḍendriya tāhe kāla,

jīve phele viṣaya-sāgare

tā'ra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamāyā sudurmati,

tā'ke jetā kaṭhina saḿsāre

kṛṣṇa baḍa dayāmaya, karibāre jihvā jaya,

sva-prasāda-anna dila bhāi

sei annāmṛta khāo, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-guṇa gāo,

preme ḍāka caitanya-nitāi

"O Lord! This material body is a lump of ignorance, and the senses are a network of paths leading to death. Somehow or other we have fallen into the ocean of material sense enjoyment, and of all the senses the tongue is the most voracious and uncontrollable. It is very difficult to conquer the tongue in this world, but You, dear Kṛṣṇa, are very kind to us. You have sent this nice prasāda to help us conquer the tongue; therefore let us take this prasāda to our full satisfaction and glorify Your Lordships Śrī Śrī Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and in love call for the help of Lord Caitanya and Prabhu Nityānanda." There are six kinds of rasas (tastes), and if one is agitated by any one of them, he becomes controlled by the urges of the tongue. Some persons are attracted to the eating of meat, fish, crabs, eggs and other things produced by semina and blood and eaten in the form of dead bodies. Others are attracted by eating vegetables, creepers, spinach or milk products, but all for the satisfaction of the tongue's demands. Such eating for sense gratification — including the use of extra quantities of spices like chili and tamarind — is to be given up by Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. The use of pan, haritakī, betel nuts, various spices used in pan-making, tobacco, LSD, marijuana, opium, liquor, coffee and tea is indulged in to fulfill illicit demands. If we can practice accepting only remnants of food offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is possible to get free from māyā's victimization. Vegetables, grains, fruits, milk products and water are proper foods to offer to the Lord, as Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself prescribes. However, if one accepts prasāda only because of its palatable taste and thus eats too much, he also falls prey to trying to satisfy the demands of the tongue. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us to avoid very palatable dishes even while eating prasāda. If we offer palatable dishes to the Deity with the intention of eating such nice food, we are involved in trying to satisfy the demands of the tongue. If we accept the invitation of a rich man with the idea of receiving palatable food, we are also trying to satisfy the demands of the tongue. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Antya 6.227) it is stated:

jihvāra lālase yei iti-uti dhāya

śiśnodara-parāyaṇa kṛṣṇa nāhi pāya

"That person who runs here and there seeking to gratify his palate and who is always attached to the desires of his stomach and genitals is unable to attain Kṛṣṇa."

As stated before, the tongue, belly and genitals are all situated in a straight line, and they fall in the same category. Lord Caitanya has said, bhāla nā khāibe āra bhāla nā paribe: "Do not dress luxuriously and do not eat delicious foodstuffs." (Cc. Antya 6.236)

Those who suffer from diseases of the stomach must be unable to control the urges of the belly, at least according to this analysis. When we desire to eat more than necessary we automatically create many inconveniences in life. However, if we observe fasting days like Ekādaśī and Janmāṣṭamī, we can restrain the demands of the belly.

As far as the urges of the genitals are concerned, there are two — proper and improper, or legal and illicit sex. When a man is properly mature, he can marry according to the rules and regulations of the śāstras and use his genitals for begetting nice children. That is legal and religious. Otherwise, he may adopt many artificial means to satisfy the demands of the genitals, and he may not use any restraint. When one indulges in illicit sex life, as defined by the śāstras, either by thinking, planning, talking about or actually having sexual intercourse, or by satisfying the genitals by artificial means, he is caught in the clutches of māyā. These instructions apply not only to householders but also to tyāgīs, or those who are in the renounced order of life. In his book Prema-vivarta, Chapter Seven, Śrī Jagadānanda Paṇḍita says:

vairāgī bhāi grāmya-kathā nā śunibe kāne

grāmya-vārtā nā kahibe yabe milibe āne

svapane o nā kara bhāi strī-sambhāṣaṇa

gṛhe strī chāḍiyā bhāi āsiyācha vana

yadi cāha praṇaya rākhite gaurāńgera sane

choṭa haridāsera kathā thāke yena mane

bhāla nā khāibe āra bhāla nā paribe

hṛdayete rādhā-kṛṣṇa sarvadā sevibe

"My dear brother, you are in the renounced order of life and should not listen to talk about ordinary worldly things, nor should you talk about worldly things when you meet with others. Do not think of women even in dreams. You have accepted the renounced order of life with a vow that forbids you to associate with women. If you wish to associate with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, you must always remember the incident of Choṭa Haridāsa and how he was rejected by the Lord. Do not eat luxurious dishes or dress in fine garments, but always remain humble and serve Their Lordships Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa in your heart of hearts."

The conclusion is that one who can control these six items — speech, mind, anger, tongue, belly and genitals — is to be called a svāmī or gosvāmī. Svāmī means master, and gosvāmī means master of the go, or senses. When one accepts the renounced order of life, he automatically assumes the title of svāmī. This does not mean that he is the master of his family, community or society; he must be master of his senses. Unless one is master of his senses, he should not be called gosvāmī, but go-dāsa, servant of the senses. Following in the footsteps of the six Gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, all svāmīs and gosvāmīs should fully engage in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. As opposed to this, the go-dāsas engage in the service of the senses or in the service of the material world. They have no other engagement. Prahlāda Mahārāja has further described the go-dāsa as adānta-go, which refers to one whose senses are not controlled. An adānta-go cannot become a servant of Kṛṣṇa. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (7.5.30), Prahlāda Mahārāja has said:

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā

mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām

adānta-gobhir viśatāḿ tamisraḿ

punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām

"For those who have decided to continue their existence in this material world for the gratification of their senses, there is no chance of becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, not by personal endeavor, by instruction from others or by joint conferences. They are dragged by the unbridled senses into the darkest region of ignorance, and thus they madly engage in what is called 'chewing the chewed.' "

Srila Prabhupada wanted no illicit sex in ISKCON and preaching, but those engaged in illicit sex can not do Harinama for very long or do bookdistribution. Generally those who have no interest in Harinama and bookdistribution can not have the higher taste and fall down into illicit sex. Sadly some also have engaged in illicit sex though doing Harinama and bookdistribution this is offensive to the holy name....

Solution is stopping the illicit sex in ISKCON and go on Harinama and bookdistribution this is the real nectar not rubbing the most filthy parts of the body together in the name of love

Temples are not for ringing bells, overeating and illicit sex .....and making money...

vaisnava das anu das

Paramananda das

  Sukadeva Gosvami said to King Pariksit: In the city known as Kanyakubja [Kanauj in present-day India] there lived a brahmana named Ajamila who married a prostitute maidservant and lost all his brahminical qualities because of the association of that low-class woman. Ajamila gave trouble to others by arresting them, by cheating them in gambling, or by directly plundering them. This was the way he earned his livelihood and maintained his wife and children.” (Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.21- 22)]

Prabhupada:. . .Sadacara means good behavior. Why good behavior was lost? Dasyah samsarga-dusitah. Because he was associating with a prostitute, illegal sex. Therefore, anyone who wants to make progress in spiritual life, he must be sadacara. His behavior must be very regulated. Asadacari, unclean, nonregulated, cannot make any progress. If somebody says that – Whatever you like, you can do. There is no difference. You can imagine your own way…”

This is going on nowadays. – Whatever you like, you can do. You can imagine your own way of self-realization.” But that is not recommended in the Vedic literatures. One must be sadacara. This is the beginning of sadacara, to rise early in the morning, to cleanse, then chant, or chant the Vedic mantras or, simplified as in the present age, Hare Krsna mantra, maha-mantra. This is the beginning of sadacara. So sadacara means to become freed from sinful reaction. Unless one follows the regulative principles he cannot be freed. And unless one is fully freed from sinful reaction he cannot understand what is God. Those who are not in sadacara, regulative principles, for them… Just like animals, they are not expected to follow any… Of course, by nature they follow regulative principles. Still, but human being, having advanced consciousness, so instead of using it properly, they misuse the advanced consciousness and thus they become lower than animals.

The animals, for want of advanced consciousness, cannot follow any regulative principles. But by nature they have got some regulative principle. A human being, advanced consciousness, instead of using it for advance in spiritual life they use it for sense gratification and thus they become lower than the animals. So as soon as one becomes irregulated, without any sadacara, then he doesn’t care for any sinful activities for maintaining his body and soul together. He doesn’t mind. Their philosophy is, what is called? – Existence is the first law of nature,” or something like…

Guest (1):Self-preservation.

Prabhupada:Self-preservation. So self-preservation… They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You’ll find it.

They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman’s house, modern, you’ll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won’t find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gita says, yesam anta gatam papam: – One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction,” yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam, – Persons who are engaged in pious activities only,” te, – such person,” te dvandva-moha-nirmukta… [Bg. 7.28].

This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity – if he is in illusion, how he can…, illusion of accepting this body as self – what is the meaning of their self-realization? He’s illusioned. He’ll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he’ll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow. Meditation, yogic meditation, is also possible when there is yama, niyama, asana, pranayama – the eight principles of yoga system. And nobody follows the eight principles of yoga system and simply sitting down and meditating, that will not help.

The first two steps are yama, niyama, then asana, then pranayama, then pratyahara, then dhyana, then dharana, then samadhi. These are explained in the yogic sastra or Bhagavad-gita. So this man, although born of a brahmana father… Now, here it is said that nasta-sadacara. Although he is born of a brahmana father, his acara, his dealings for advancing in spiritual life…A brahmana is expected to be truthful, to be self-controlled, to be fully cognizant of spiritual life, practical application in life, jnanam, vijnanam, astikyam, to have complete faith in the statement of the sastras.

That is… That is called astikyam. We, according to our Vedic system, we do not accept any other system of religion because we consider them nastika. That is the primary principle. Nastika means one who does not believe in the Vedas. He is called nastika. Not that he does not believe in God. One may believe in God, but one who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is called nastika. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. Lord Buddha, although he is accepted as incarnation of God, but because he defied the Vedic principles it is said, nindasi yajna-vidher ahaha sruti-jatam. Lord Buddha criticized the, I mean to say, sacrificial ceremonies because in the sacrificial ceremonies sometimes there is recommendation of killing an animal. But he was preaching nonviolence. So he criticized even the sacrifice in yajna. He criticized. Nindasi… But a Vaisnava is praying, – My dear Lord, you are defying the Vedic principles.”

He knows why the Lord is now defying the Vedic principles; therefore he is devotee. In spite of Lord Buddha’s defying the Vedic principles, a devotee is offering him obeisances. Kesava dhrta-buddha-sarira jaya jagadisa hare. He knows the Lord, how He is playing, how He is bewildering the atheistic class of men. The atheistic class of men did not believe in God. Lord Buddha says, – Yes, you don’t require to believe in God. There is no God. But you feel yourself that when you are attacked with violence you feel pain. Why should you offer to others?” Because his mission was to stop animal killing. Sadaya-hrdaya-darsita-pasu-ghatam. The Supreme Lord became too much compassionate when he saw that people are unnecessarily killing animals, as it is going on still. Instead of… At least those who are claiming Buddhist, they are killing animals. Bruce, is it not? Yes. But in the Buddhist religion there is no sanction for killing animals. Yes?

Guest (2):(Hindi)

Prabhupada:(Hindi) Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is nastika. Just like the Mohammedans, they say, – Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is kafir.” The Christians say, – Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens.” That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that veda na maniya bauddha haila nastika. He is giving the definition because we have to follow the great personalities, great acaryas. That is our process.

We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great acaryas. Acaryopasanam. That is the process of Vedic system. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. Sadhu guru sastra vakya. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

Guest (3):Sastra-vakya-pramana.

Prabhupada:Sastra-vakya-pramana. And it should be known through the spiritual master. Just like nowadays Bhagavad-gita is being interpreted in so many foolish ways because they do not accept explanation from the authority. They become themselves authorities. Therefore misused. That is not explanation. Somebody is explaining that Kuruksetra means this body, panca-pandava means the senses. These are all nonsense. You have to accept Bhagavad-gita as it is. When you cannot understand, you should get it explained by your spiritual master. Therefore one has to accept a spiritual master to understand. Tad-vijnanartham. In order to understand that transcendental science one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is injunction. So here it is said that kanyakubje dvijah. Dvijah means he was offered the sacred thread. That means he was born in a brahmana family. Janmana jayate sudrah.

Everyone is born a sudra, a foolish. Sudra means a foolish man who simply laments. That is the real meaning of sudra. Anyone who has no intelligence, he is sudra. We also generally say, gadah, less intelligent. So brahmanas, ksatriyas, vaisyas, they are called higher caste. According to their… Brahmana, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Ksatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaisya, his intelligence is third-class. And sudra means fourth-class. And less than sudra, they are called pancama, candala. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than sudras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija… Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth.

First birth by father, mother, is sudra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brahmana family, the natural birth is considered as sudra. But if there is garbhadhana-samskara, then he’s accepted as born brahmana, born brahmana. Still, one is born brahmana, he has to undergo the samskaras. So our, this… Now it is known as Hindu society although the – Hindu” word is given by the Mohammedans.

It is called sanatana-dharma or varnasrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varna – brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sudra – and four divisions of spiritual life – brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa. So our, the Vedic system is called varnasrama. Varna means the social order. Asrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called grhastha asrama. Asrama. Whenever you add this word asrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division – brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha, and sannyasa – they are known as asrama. Anyone can understand asrama. As soon as there is asrama that means – Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives.” That is asrama.

So that asrama, when a student follows the regulative principles, he is supposed to be situated in brahmacari asrama. A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles – grhastha asrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles – the vanaprastha asrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyasa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyasa asrama. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a sannyasi and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the sanatana-dharma society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles but for solution of economic problem they dress themselves. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress without any knowledge.

So here also, although Ajamila was born of a brahmana father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a brahmana – that will be stated – but he fell. He fell in love with a prostitute And therefore his characters were lost. Nasta-sadacarah. The reason is why? Dasyah samsarga-dusitah. Because he associated with a prostitute, therefore his all regulative principles became lost. And as soon as you are lost of regulative principles then you take to all kinds of sinful activities. The regulative principles will keep you on the standard of life. If you give it up, then immediately you fall down, maya. So this man Ajamila, because he was duracara, nasta-sadacara, lost of all regulative principles on account of associating with a prostitute, then, although he was born of a brahmana family, he became… His livelihood was juha(?), bandy-aksaih, cheating and stealing. Bandy-aksaih kaitavais cauryaih. Cauryaih means stealing. Garhitam vrttim asthitah. This kind of profession is garhita. Garhitam means… Hita means beneficial.

But this profession is garhita because it is not beneficial. Ultimately he will be punished either by the king’s law or by the God’s law. I can escape the king’s law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God’s law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that – Now I am cheating this person,” or – I am stealing and getting some profit,” that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he’ll be hanged. So they think that – I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities,” but that is stated in the sastra as garhita. Garhita means it is not beneficial for you.” Na sadhu manye yato atmano ‘yam. In another place it is said, – These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately.” Na sadhu manye yato atmano ‘yam asann api klesada asa dehah [Bhag. 5.5.4].

Although atma, the self, is different from this body – that is the first lesson in spiritual life – still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog’s body you suffer according to that. If you get a man’s body… Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Rsabhadeva said, na sadhu manye: – You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body.” Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering.

Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you’ll suffer. Therefore garhitam. There are so many things to know but these things are not discussed nowadays. Very cheap thing: – You can do whatever you like. You simply meditate and become God, that’s all.” So much cheating is going on everywhere, all over the world.

So-called yogis, they go, – Oh, you meditate. You are… And as soon as you realize, you are God, within six months.” No. Therefore in this age the only method… It is a concession to the fallen people of this world, this Hare Krsna mantra. They ‘ll not be able to follow all the regulative principles; therefore they must commit all kinds of abominable activities. Under the circumstances the sastra or God has given a concession that you simply chant Hare Krsna mantra and gradually you will be elevated to the highest position of spiritual life. Other things you cannot follow. You are already fallen.

So you take to this process of chanting Hare Krsna mantra without any offense. And in order to save yourself from the offenses, a little austerity that you cannot have illicit sex life. Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone’s need is sex life. Ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So sastra has sanctioned, – All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children.” That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. – I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life.” But that is not good. That is garhitam. Na sadhu manye: – This is not good.” This is the advice of Vedic literature.

Ultimately you’ll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don’t take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacari. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmacarya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacari, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadacara. Nasta-sadacaro dasyah samsarga-dusitah. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I… When I was… In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith’s Transit Company.

So they had to… I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, – Whether he is married?” Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely… But that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That’s a fact. Therefore in our Krsna consciousness movement we do not allow such illicit sex life, no. You must get yourself married. And practically, we are seeing, that is very effective and that is going on nicely. All right. (Hindi)

Guest (4):(Hindi) Yesterday I had a talk with Bhagavati Hema.

[edited, they discuss an editorial in a magazine which misrepresents Srila Prabhupada, Guest (4): is a writer and Srila Prabhupada asks him to help him write but tells him he can not pay him]

Guest (4): But for my family liabilities… Prabhupada: What amount you want for your family, minimum? Guest (4): Five hundred a month. Prabhupada: That is not possible. Yes, you require five hundred. I know that. That is not much. To maintain a family nowadays five hundred rupees is not much but where is the money? How can I pay you? Guest (4):I would be a very good asset to your publications work.

Prabhupada:That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can… We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause. (tape of kirtana plays for a second)

Guest (4): His old mother listens to these chantings. [break] Prabhupada: No, no, he has appeared to establish dharma. So what is the dharma according… Guest (4): Sastra-dharma. Sastra means Arya-samaji-pratistha… Prabhupada: So what is that sastra veda dharma? Guest (4): Vedic dharma. Prabhupada: So what is that? Explain it practically. Guest (4): Yama, niyama, samadhi, dhyana… Prabhupada: No, that is the process. So what is the end of dharma? Guest (4): Self-realization. Prabhupada: What is that self? Guest (4): That is to be realized. (laughter) Prabhupada: This is going on. One has no idea what is dharma, what is the end, but he becomes, – Oh, I have appeared for establishing dharma.” And when he is asked, – What is that dharma?” – It is to be realized.” Then what you have realized that you are preaching dharma? Guest (4): Sadacara… Prabhupada: Sadacara is the means. Sadacara is not the end. Guest (4): Can I know as to what made these young people want to leave the affluent present society and join this… Prabhupada: Because they are sincere, seeking after… Guest (4):Pardon, sir?

Prabhupada:They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma jijnasa. After finishing karma-kandiya life… Karma-kandiya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kandiya.

So… But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness. They hanker after these palatial buildings, the motor cars, the bank balance, and so on, so on. Therefore those who have enjoyed all these things but have not become happy, there is another inquiry: – How to become happy?” [break] …say America, they have enjoyed material life. Their children have enjoyed material life to the fullest extent but they are not happy. Therefore they have come to this spiritual life.

Guest (4): Last night in your learned discourse you said that you’re supposed to found a temple in this city. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (4): But you preach the Vedic marga. Don’t you think that instead of building a temple, asramas in this brahmacari model would be… Prabhupada: Yes. And without temple the brahmacaris will be vyabhicaris. (laughter) Guest (4): That asrama becomes a temple. Prabhupada: Yes, that we… Wherever we have got a center we have got a temple and at the same time teaching. These two things must go parallel. If simply dry teachings go on and there is no temple worship, then gradually he will glide down to vyabhicari instead of brahmacari. Guest (4): Besides the chanting Hare Krsna and arousing(?) this Krsna consciousness in the people, what else are you doing to establish the way…? Prabhupada: That you have seen this morning. We are teaching every day the sastra. They are not simply chanting. Their chanting is based on understanding. Therefore they are sticking.(?) Guest (4): Maharaja, the educational system of this country has so much deteriorated. I have been studying. I see young people of different colleges, boys and girls taking to LSD even in this city and doing to all sorts of nonsense. What is the best…? Prabhupada: That I was explaining. As soon as there is indulgence in illicit sex life, all bad qualification will come. That I was explaining. Guest (4): And Maharaja, what are your impressions of the youth of this country? Prabhupada: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen. Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education? Prabhupada: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, – Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that’s all…” No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bharatavarsa. So we are not giving the bharatiya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that’s a great loss of the secular state. Guest (4): Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education? Prabhupada: No. Guest (4): Then what system do you advocate? Prabhupada: Of course, so far Vedic culture is concerned, they advocated monarchy because the one man’s training, a good king guided by the brahminical culture, although it was autocratic sometimes, but because the king was very cultured there was no possibility of doing any harm to the citizens. But democracy means simply they are given the post by votes, and they may be all rascals. Then what they can think of good to the citizens? Guest (4): Maharaja, don’t you think that monarchy (unclear) Prabhupada: No, that is also not possible. And therefore we are training people to be Krsna conscious. And when the Krsna conscious people will elect Krsna conscious leaders there will be peace and prosperity. And now, because the minority is Krsna conscious, they cannot elect Krsna conscious leaders and therefore havoc is being played. Guest (4): Maharaja, do you think the West is being Hinduized? Prabhupada: The – Hinduized” is a sectarian view. We are not… Guest (4): I mean this, being brought up on sanatana culture. Prabhupada: Vedic ways. Yes. You can… The perfect word is Vedic civilization. Guest (4): Vedic civilization. Prabhupada: Yes. That is original civilization. Out of Vedic civilization there are so many outcome now, but if you go originally to the Vedic civilization, that is Krsna consciousness. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find the word is vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg. 15.15]. That means to follow the Vedic way of life means to become Krsna conscious. Guest (5): (unclear) Prabhupada: Yes, Vedic way means they are following principles, regulative principles. Guest (5): So what principle? Prabhupada: That I was explaining. That is a big principle. But it has been shortened, shortened in this age. Harer nama harer nama harer namaiva kevalam, kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha [Adi 17.21]. In the Kali-yuga you cannot reform the whole population by any other means except this harer nama. Therefore we are introducing Hare Krsna movement everywhere. Guest (4): Maharaja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call… Prabhupada: No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is vijnana. So when you call of, talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood. Guest (4): Maharaja, (Hindi) Prabhupada: Yes. Varnasrama-dharma… That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasah [Bg. 4.13]. Qualified. Therefore we want qualified brahmanas, qualified ksatriyas. At the present moment, without being qualified, they are passing on as brahmana, ksatriya. That is not varnasrama. Without being qualified they are all sudras, all candalas. But when they are properly trained and qualified, then it is varnasrama, real varnasrama. Guest (4): Where are they to be trained, then? How are they… Prabhupada: That we are proposing. When we open a center we shall train anyone. It doesn’t matter whether he is born in a sudra family or brahmana family. Just like they are born in a different family other than brahmana but they are now brahmana because after being trained up. Guest (4): (Hindi) …regard, you said that monarchy and democracy, both are systems which cannot help this cause. Then… Prabhupada: No, why cannot help? If… Monarchy means the king was properly trained up. Similarly, in the democracy, if people are properly trained up, then they will vote for nice men and there will be nice government. Now, because the people are not trained, they are practically asses. The votes of the asses, what has the meaning? If the majority are asses, then one ass will be elected. That’s all. So when the executive head is an ass what benefit he can do to the people? Guest (5): I see. Guest (4): Maharaja, you said that you had been misrepresented in that report which appeared yesterday in one of the dailies of the cities. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (4): How could you like to mend your statement? Prabhupada: My statements are clear there but he has mis-stated in the heading with ulterior purpose. Guest (4): I think he has… Prabhupada: Young men of cities, they may come to me and be trained up in the spiritual life, Krsna consciousness. (Hindi) So long you’ll ask me to keep here, provided you are serious of taking training from me… Guest (4): I am very much serious. Prabhupada: Then you are welcome. I am asking young men like you to come and join me. Guest (5): (unintelligible) Prabhupada: Aiye. Yes. I am speaking in English because my students, they cannot understand Hindi. But if educated young boys like you come they will be also able to understand English, so there will be no difficulty. Guest (4): Thank you, Maharaja. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Replay little. [break] Please try to understand the philosophy. Thank you. Yes. (Hindi) So you are welcome. You come. Live with us with your family. We take charge of you. But if you ask some salary, that is not possible. That is not possible. Guest (4): I have my sisters and mother and father to support. Prabhupada: So let them come, all, and live with me. (Hindi) That’s nice. (Hindi). That I can take. But if you want money, that is not possible. Guest (5): No, I don’t want money. Prabhupada: Then you come with your whole family. (Hindi) [break] Prabhupada: Don’t be dependent. Be dependent on Krsna. To live here means to become dependent on Krsna. That is there(?). You have to become dependent either to your master or to your boss or to your brother or to somebody else. But if you become dependent on Krsna your whole problem is solved. Yes. Hare Krsna. [break] Don’t consider about money. (Hindi) …did not care for the family. For political emancipation they sacrificed so much. Guest (5): Perhaps they are the people, the older followers of… Prabhupada:Not always these people. Not all. (Hindi) We have created this problem. (Hindi) [break] You’ll get your bread, bara, and somebody will fill up your belly. (Hindi) It is not possible. (Hindi)

   nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam    eko bahunam vidadhati kaman

   These are Vedic injunctions. You know all this; then why don’t you believe in this? [break] (Hindi) So it is coming? (Hindi) [break] We must have faith. Adau sraddha (Hindi) You should be prepared even there is difficulty. Just like when I took sannyasa I gave up my family life. In the beginning there was so much difficulty. I was living alone. But I never cared for it. Hare Krsna.

Guest (6): Swamiji, suppose one wants to become life member… They can’t pay whole money in one charge. They want to pay in installments. Prabhupada: That’s nice. We shall accept. Oh, yes. Guest (6): They told me that it is impossible for them to pay whole sum. Prabhupada: That doesn’t matter. Let him pay by… Guest (6): They are ready to pay two or three installments. Prabhupada: That’s all right. It is accepted. Please bring them. Guest (6): One man, that Bengali person, he is coming. He wants to become member but he is telling that – I am unable to pay whole…” Prabhupada: No, no, no. That doesn’t matter. Let him pay by installments. Guest (6): I told him I will ask you, whether you are ready or not. Prabhupada: (Hindi) Guest (6): He is coming daily, that man. Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Mr. Chakravarti or Chatterjee. Yes. Guest (6): Chatterjee. He is scared of people.(?) Prabhupada: He is good boy. Yes. No. He had the cap on his head, sweater, cap and pant. Guest (6): Yesterday he was asking me to ask you. Prabhupada: Where is my stick? Give me a glass of water. [break] Guest (6): I am ready to pay installments. Prabhupada: Then there is no problem. You come and join me. If you want… Guest (6): Let me get degree. Prabhupada: You get your degree. That’s all right. Finish your education. If I’ll be able to open a center, nice center, I shall call so many people, – Come and live with me and be trained up.” I am just writing one advertisement. We shall have to publish it. Just read it. Hamsaduta: – Wanted: qualified brahmanas for preaching Bhagavad-gita all over the world. (laughter) Candidates accepted without any discrimination of caste and creed. Apply ISKCON.” Yamuna: Oh, ho, ho, Prabhupada! Hamsaduta: – Life member can send any member of his family for being trained up as a qualified brahmana who can preach Bhagavad-gita as it is all over the world.” You’re going to put this in the newspaper? Prabhupada: Huh? Yes. Hamsaduta: Oh, that will be nice. (laughter) Prabhupada: Yes. Yamuna: Oh, that’s a wonderful notice, Prabhupada. It’s so wonderful. Prabhupada: We have to preach all over the world. We require so many men, so many boys, girls, men we want. Hamsaduta: I should send this to the GBC members… Hamsaduta: …in the West, and they should put ads in the paper. Prabhupada: Yes. Let us have application. Hamsaduta: Should I copy it down? Prabhupada: Yes, you take it. You take it. Type it. Himavati: Prabhupada, in Calcutta Madhudvisa advertised like that at one meeting, and the next day a man came… Prabhupada: Only one man? Hamsaduta: Two men came. Himavati: With his six children and his wife, they were prepared, – Let us live here. We will see.” Prabhupada: Yes. Himavati: And another old man that was so old that he was ready to die. (laughter) Prabhupada: Then you write, – Young men.” No, even old man, there is no question. That we can test, whether he is able, he is a qualified brahmana. First of all he is qualified brahmana. Himavati: You were going to Peruda(?) that day, so we said, – When we return, then you come and join us.” But when we returned they didn’t come. They changed their mind. Prabhupada: Yes. They cannot. They cannot. Only young men can join. Old men cannot join. (Hindi) Guest (6): Asoka Kumar. Prabhupada: Oh, yes, I remember. So please, after finishing your education you come and join this great movement. They are joining Communist movement, this movement, that movement. Why not a real genuine movement for the welfare of the whole? Guest (6): I am not joining any… Prabhupada: No, I mean to say… Guest (6): I want to join… Prabhupada: Generally they join. Generally they join. Guest (6): My brother also agrees to stay with you. Prabhupada: Oh, that’s nice. Guest (6): From today I am ready to join you. Prabhupada: No, you finish your education. That will be a good qualification. Guest (6): Why not you are paying a visit in Lakhpur(?). There is a very big Gita Mandir. Prabhupada: Everywhere there is Gita Mandir. Here there is also big Gita Mandir. Guest (6): No, there… Here they have mixture of many gods. Not like that. There is only one Gita, and all, the whole temple, belongs to Gita and nothing else. Prabhupada: So if they invite, I can go. Why don’t you ask them to invite us? Then we can go immediately. Guest (6): Whole temple there is a pracara(?) Gita. Prabhupada: But how many preachers they have produced? Guest (6): You must be knowing that Vidyananda, Swami Vidyananda. Prabhupada: Oh, he’s a great nonsense. Guest (6): Oh, no. Prabhupada: I know. Guest (6): He has constructed that from Gujarat. He’s a Gujarati. Prabhupada: Yes. Guest (6): He constructed a temple there. Prabhupada:I have seen in Ahmedabad his temple. He established one deity, a woman shape, and there is no Krsna. – Gita.” – Gita” means a woman. So I don’t think he has full understanding of Gita. He has money; he has spent. That’s all. But he does not understand Gita. Gita means unless one takes Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead he does not understand anything of Gita. That is the test.

He may advertise himself as scholar or this or that, but our only test is whether he accepts Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the test. Is that person accepting Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He himself accepts that – I am God.” Is it not? Therefore he’s a foolish. He is squandering money, public money. That’s all. That is his business. He might have some qualification to collect money, but he does not know what is Krsna.

Guest (6): He’s all (unclear). Prabhupada: But I think he is dead. Guest (6):He is dead now or he… Sadhanananda is dead, Swami Sadhananda.

Prabhupada:I know. So that is the test. That is the test. Therefore it is a revolutionary movement. Even so-called followers of Gita, they will be caught up by this movement as rascals. Because the real purpose of Gita they do not know. Real purpose of Gita is to know Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That you will find in the Bhagavad-gita. Sarvam etad rtam manye yan mam vadasi madhava [Bg. 10.14].

And Arjuna says that – Whatever You have said, they’re all right and I accept them in toto without any revision.” So Krsna says that – I am the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” One who does not understand Krsna as the Supreme Person, what he has read Gita? He is useless. Srama eva hi kevalam. Simply has labored. That’s all. That is the test. Don’t you agree to this point? So anyone who does not accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gita. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?

Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupada. Prabhupada:Yes. That is the test, whether he has understood. In the Seventh Chapter,    mayy asakta-manah partha    yogam yunjan mad-asrayah    asamsayam samagram mam    yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu    [Bg. 7.1]

– Anyone… How one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me,” mayy asakta, – with asakti…” Asakti means attachment, love. Mayy asakta-manah. Mind attached to Krsna in love. Yogam yunjan mad-asrayah. And performing the bhakti-yoga, mad-asrayah, under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, mad-asrayah. Asamsayam samagram mam: – Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am.” That means one who has not understood Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the yoga properly. And why? That is mad-asrayah, he does not follow the disciplic succession. Mad asrayah. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, evam parampara-praptam. So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand Bhagavad-gita. Anyone… We say… It may appear to be very strong word but that’s a fact. (Hindi) That’s a strong word, that’s all right, but he’s a chor. (Hindi) Strong language used here… (Hindi)

Guest (6): (unclear)… From the very day I saw this movement, I have intent only in Krsna, not in any other movement. Prabhupada: So that is our movement. Wherever we go, we find out sincere persons, immediately attract. Yes. But if he’s not sincere, we cannot attract. If he’s sincere, immediately attract. That is the value of this movement. All my students, they were attracted only because they were sincere. Anyone sincere in seeking after the Absolute Truth will be attracted. Guest (6): I am not getting …(unclear) Prabhupada: Ekagra. Ekagra. Yogam yunjan mad-asrayah, therefore it is said. – One has to perform this bhakti-yoga under My representative.” Mad-asrayah. Guest (6): I am very grateful to you. Prabhupada:And there is Narottama dasa Thakura-Prarthana. Asraya laiya bhaje, krsna nahi tare tyage: – One who takes asraya, shelter of a devotee, Krsna does not give him up. Krsna accepts him.” Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah… **. Because if that person who is giving shelter, if he’s pleased, Krsna is immediately… If he recommends a fool, – Oh, Krsna, here is a devotee,” Krsna will accept immediately. It doesn’t matter whether he’s a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. Yasya pra… This is the meaning of yasya prasadad bhagavat-pra… Without his recommendation there is no entry in Krsna’s kingdom.

Yasya-prasadad na gatih kuto ‘pi. If he displeases Krsna’s representative he has no entrance to the Krsna’s kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected.

In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary. Immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, – Get out immediately from the office.” And he wanted to plead in so many ways. Said, – No, I don’t want. If you don’t go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out.” I was sorry because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient… – Obedience is first discipline.” So if Krsna’s representative is disobeyed – - Get out immediately.” Krsna is very strict.

Guest (6): (unclear) …From tomorrow he was not able to get (unclear) Prabhupada: Yes. Just see. Yes. Therefore in our system Vaisnavaparadha is the greatest offense, to commit offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava, and spiritual master is to be considered the first Vaisnava. If there is aparadha, that is great, greatest offense. That will spoil the whole spiritual life. These are stated in Caitanya-caritamrta. In Teachings of Lord Caitanya you’ll find. Guest (6): In yesterday’s paper I read that somebody donated some land to you. Prabhupada: Yes. No. He has proposed to donate; not he has done. Where you learned this? Guest (6): In that (unclear) Prabhupada: Yes, somebody has promised. Somebody has promised. Guest (6): And it will (unclear) Radha-Krsna mandir, I will possibly able to get (unclear) Prabhupada: Yes, why not? Guest (6): Swamiji, you are here still. Prabhupada: But if somebody gives me land I may go on staying here. Guest (6): No, no, father and mother, they are forcing me to leave you all in my home. Prabhupada: Where it is? Guest (6): It is nearby. Prabhupada: Your father, mother, cannot come here? Guest (6): They want you to come. Revatinandana: They’ve come here before. Prabhupada: Oh. (end

[Paramananda das]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam5.5.2

mahat-sevāḿ dvāram āhur vimuktes

tamo-dvāraḿ yoṣitāḿ sańgi-sańgam

mahāntas te sama-cittāḥ praśāntā

vimanyavaḥ suhṛdaḥ sādhavo ye

SYNONYMS

mahat-sevām — service to the spiritually advanced persons called mahātmās; dvāram — the way; āhuḥ — they say; vimukteḥ — of liberation; tamaḥ-dvāram — the way to the dungeon of a dark, hellish condition of life; yoṣitām — of women; sańgi — of associates; sańgam — association; mahāntaḥ — highly advanced in spiritual understanding; te — they; sama-cittāḥ — persons who see everyone in a spiritual identity; praśāntāḥ — very peaceful, situated in Brahman or Bhagavān; vimanyavaḥ — without anger (one must distribute Kṛṣṇa consciousness to persons who are hostile without becoming angry at them); suhṛdaḥ — well-wishers of everyone; sādhavaḥ — qualified devotees, without abominable behavior; ye — they who.

TRANSLATION

One can attain the path of liberation from material bondage only by rendering service to highly advanced spiritual personalities. These personalities are impersonalists and devotees. Whether one wants to merge into the Lord's existence or wants to associate with the Personality of Godhead, one should render service to the mahātmās. For those who are not interested in such activities, who associate with people fond of women and sex, the path to hell is wide open. The mahātmās are equipoised. They do not see any difference between one living entity and another. They are very peaceful and are fully engaged in devotional service. They are devoid of anger, and they work for the benefit of everyone. They do not behave in any abominable way. Such people are known as mahātmās.

PURPORT

The human body is like a junction. One may either take the path of liberation or the path leading to a hellish condition. How one can take these paths is described herein. On the path of liberation, one associate; with mahātmās, and on the path of bondage one associates with those attached to sense gratification and women. There are two types of mahātmās — the impersonalist and the devotee. Although their ultimate goal is different, the process of emancipation is almost the same. Both want eternal happiness. One seeks happiness in impersonal Brahman, and the other seeks happiness in the association of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. As described in the first verse: brahma-saukhyam. Brahman means spiritual or eternal; both the impersonalist and the devotee seek eternal blissful life. In any case, it is advised that one become perfect. In the words of Caitanya-caritāmṛta (Madhya 22.87):

asat-sańga-tyāga, — ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra

'strī-sańgī' — eka asādhu, 'kṛṣṇābhakta' āra

To remain unattached to the modes of material nature, one should avoid associating with those who are asat, materialistic. There are two kinds of materialists. One is attached to women and sense gratification, and the other is simply a nondevotee. On the positive side is association with mahātmās, and on the negative side is the avoidance of nondevotees and women-hunters.