Sastra Caksusa

seeing through the eyes of scriptures

Srila Prabhupada on the jiva issue and going to Gaudiya math and delivering others

dear devotees 

Please accept my humble obaisences\
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
 One devotee was sharing with me how his wife wants to take diksa in my Gurudevas math .I actually do not advise against doing so  .I also have 3 initiated disciples one of them was struggling to follow the 4 regs ,he did not like I chastised him for braking the regs and made his falldown public .So I said you can go stay with ISKCON Puerto Rico I can not help you . Srila Narayana Maharaja stated his disciples  in good standing can give diksa .So though I am not a fan of leaving ISKCON to go to my Gurudevas math many have done so.I grew up in ISKCON and I never liked to have to leave ISKCON to join my Gurudeva  math anyhow I always considered and consider myself loyal to Srila Prabhupada .The problem is many of ISKCON;s diksa Gurus even most of them  does not inspire new devotees for serious KC, But it is a start of their KC so if anyone can follow 4 regs and chant 16 rounds then I guess something is there.Srila Narayana Maharaja sometimes said ISKCON Gurus can not  give bhakti they just  want money .
 Though this is a general statement and there is a lot truth  to it sadly .it is sad to see devotees leave ISKCON to join Gaudiya math. But then again every soul has a free choice given by Krsna. If they follow properly in Gaudiya math then it is ok .So many of my dear friends have joined my Gurudevas math and many of them pay respects to ISKCON from a big distance .However Srila Prabhupada once came in my dreams and asked me to try to help his ISKCON. I distribute Srila Prabhupadas books no matter when I was in ISKCON or Gaudiya math that will not change and it is my connection also to Srila Prabhupada .It is not only an external seva, it is part of what I do in this body.Will I keep distributing Srila Prabhupadas books birth after birth.I would say hopefully not.I do not want to stay in this rotten material world .It is not a place for gentleman .Anyhow another person I gave diksa too Laxmi kanta das wants to join my Gurudevas math , so I said sure go ahead , he dislike so many things about ISKCON anyway and sees no end to the deviationes in ISKCON,I can not blame him,I feel very sorry for him and his wife Radha devi dasi they are in my prayers daily as  is Madhusudana das . 
One vers comes to mind : 

SB 5.5.18

gurur na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syāt
 pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt
daivaṁ na tat syān na patiś ca sa syān
 na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum
Word for word: 
guruḥ — a spiritual master; na — not; saḥ — he; syāt — should become; sva-janaḥ — a relative; na — not; saḥ — such a person; syāt — should become; pitā — a father; na — not; saḥ — he; syāt — should become; jananī — a mother; na — not;  — she; syāt — should become; daivam — the worshipable deity; na — not; tat — that; syāt— should become; na — not; patiḥ — a husband; ca — also; saḥ — he; syāt — should become; na — not;mocayet — can deliver; yaḥ — who; samupeta-mṛtyum — one who is on the path of repeated birth and death.
Translation: 
One who cannot deliver his dependents from the path of repeated birth and death should never become a spiritual master, a father, a husband, a mother or a worshipable demigod.
Srila Rsabhadeva has made it very clear . I think anyone that has been a spiritual master to someone , either diksa or siksa will run into the same problem . Therefore we have to deliver ourself first ,if we can not make someone come to the point of chanting 64 rounds daily as instructed by my Gurudeva and his Guru Maharaja Srila Bhakti Prajnana  Kesava Maharaja ,then what we can do? At least they chant some Hare Krsna .Srila Prabhupada did his best to make devotees chant at least 16 rounds and follow the 4 regs .What a wonderful thing Srila Prabhupada has done by introducing the 4 regs and minimum 16 rounds .NOT Braking these 4 pillars of sins , is so helpful for going back to Godhead .Without it one can not go.
 Now one thing I discussed with my friend was the jiva issue, he has diksa in ISKCON but does not accept Srila Prabhupadas version on the jiva issue,He accept the version as taught by Srila Gaura Govinda Maharaja and Srila Narayana Maharaja that the soul came from tatasta sakti.If you read Jaiva Dharma by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura there is no mention of the jiva falling from Vaikuntha or Goloka but from tatasta sakti  :
 
   lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358 — New York, December 28, 1966:
Srila Prabhupada – ‘So Lord Caitanya gives evidences from the Mahā-purāṇam, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth, is analyzed in two characteristics. What are they? The, the personal characteristics and taṭastha characteristics.
Taṭastha means they are sometimes manifested and they are not sometimes manifested. So this material world is the taṭastha characteristics, and the spiritual world is the personal characteristics.
So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha, or, I mean to say, taṭastha means marginal, marginal characteristics to the permanent characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation. We should not remain in the marginal state, but we should go to the permanent state’. — New York, December 28, 1966:
Tatastha s’akti is a name for the jiva tattva in the material creation and impersonal brahman that simply means we have the ability to choose this side of being with Krishna or that side being in the mahat-tattva material creation, no-one comes from there because it is not a place.
There are 160 names for the jiva-tattva like baddha–jiva, siddha-jiva, tatastha-jiva, jiva-tattva, jiva-s’akti, jiva bhutah etc that each describe the marginal living entity in its particular possition.
For example tatastha s’akti or jiva-tatastha refers to the jiva-tattva’s sovereignty as an individual living being while in the material creation or merged in the impersonal brahmajyoti THAT HAS FREE WILL AND THE ABILITY TO CHOOSE its destiny.
NO jiva-tattva comes from tatastha-s’akti because THEY are ALREADY tatastha-s’akti while in the material universe or trapped in the impersonal brahman and are ALWAYS jiva tattva while in Vaikuntha, material creation or the impersonal brahmajyoti.
Tatastha-s’akti is NOT some place in the cosmos; it is simply a description of the jiva-tattva (marginal living entity) nature pertaining to free will and the ability to choose while in the material universe and this catagory of jiva tattva known as jiva tatastha does not exist in the Vaikuntha. In fact to enter Vaikuntha, one must progress beyond this level of jiva tattva known as tatastha in order to enter Vaikuntha as Srila Prabhupada explains
Tatastha s’akti simply means we have the ability to choose this side or material creation or that side or Vaikuntha planets while in the material universe or impersonal brahmajyoti.
Lecture on CC Madhya-lila 20.358-359 — New York, December 29, 1966:
Srila Prabhupada – ‘Similarly, this material energy, you cannot say that it is false. It is false. The Vaiṣṇava philosophy is perfect. As the temperature (indistinct), it is sometimes manifested. And this is called taṭasthā. This characteristic, this symptom of the Supreme Lord, is called taṭasthā. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But, so far the superior energy is concerned, that is always manifested. That is explained in the next line. Dhāmnā svena sadā nirasta-kuhakaṁ paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Now that is paraṁ satyam, the Supreme Truth, where there is no such temporary manifestation’.
The marginal living entity therefore is always also known a tatastha- s’akti in the material universe and impersonal brahman only and never Vaikuntha, meaning there is always choice and free-will to love Krishna or reject Krishna. Taṭasthā-śakti is the marginal energy of God while in the material universe and impersonal Brahmajyoti.
The jiva is NEVER known as tatastha-sakti in Vaikuntha or Goloka. Although the jivas are eternal, it is their position as marginal energy – between lower dead material energy and higher spiritual energy of Krishna and his various expansions like Vishnu tattvas that include eternal associates of shakti tattvas that never fall fron Vaikuntha and jiva tattva’ like us who can fall due to choice.
In other word the jiva tattva is between external (material) energy and internal (also eternal spiritual) energy of Krishna Svayam Bhagavan.
In Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, Verse 6.160 are enumerated these three energies:
The spiritual potency of the Supreme Personality of Godhead also appears in three phases — internal, marginal and external.
Another verse (Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya, 8.152) gives more information
In other words, these are all potencies of God — internal, external and marginal. But the internal potency is the Lord’s personal energy of sakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas and stands over the other two. The jiva tattvas or marginal energy can choose to enter Vaikuntha or the material universes.
So jivatma, living being is never equal to Supreme Godhead and also always subordinate to Him. Above the jiva tattva stands Internal energy of Krishna of shakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas, the jiva tattvas originate from that realm of the Spiritual Sky known as Vaikuntha as well
The Spiritual Sky is the entire existence that has no beginning and has always existed. This means there is wall to wall, so to speak, of jiva tattvas, shakti tattvas and Vishnu tattvas, The jiva tattvas or Krishna’s marginal potency however are ALL accompanied by a Vishnu tattva expansion of Krishna in the mahat tattva where as in Vaikuntha they are more personally with the Lord.
there is 2 interesting views of Tatastha Sakti as explained by this disciple of Srila Prabhupada in a profound way: 
Anyhow we have become Nitya Baddhas we can all agree on this and how we came here is  relevant and as we want to know.How did my soul end up from Svarupa Sakti and being so much influenced by Maya sakti ? We see in the life of Gopa Kumara how he took to constant chanting ,what   his mantra was is not clear, the Mahamantra was not mentioned only the Gopal mantra, Klim Krishnaya Govindaya Gopijanavallabhaya Svaha
"I offer oblations unto Lord Krishna, who is Govinda the lover of the gopis."
Identity and Importance
 
Actually this mantra contains Radha Madan Mohan ,as Krsna , Govindadeva as Govindaya and as Lord Gopinatha, Gopijanavallabhaya So sambhandha, abhideya and prayojana tattvas all 3 are included.
 
We also daily chant Gopal mantra 3 times  daily in our Gayatri mantra.Anyhow we see how Gopa Kumara entered Goloka Vrindavana and Krsna asked Gopa Kumara where he had been?
So Gopa Kumara seemed to be a conditioned soul but he was reinstated in his Svarupa Siddha as a sakha ,even Balarama and none of the Vrijabasis had seen Gopa Kumara before now he had become a Nitya parishad ,Svarupa  and he was placed as an associate of Sridhama Sakha and given prasada of Sri Radha.  
 
this beautiful vers is spoken by Lord Caitanya: 

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema ‘sādhya’ kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

SYNONYMS

nitya-siddha—eternally established; kṛṣṇa-prema—love of Kṛṣṇa; sādhya—to be gained; kabhu—at any time; naya—not; śravaṇa-ādi—by hearing, etc.; śuddha—purified; citte—in the heart; karaye udaya—awakens.

TRANSLATION

“Pure love for Kṛṣṇa is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.
So the nitya svarupa is always there in the heart of the jiva , have we been with Krsna in Goloka Vrindavana before ? Why did Krsna say to Gopa Kumara where have you been? But the associates of Krsna seemed to have never seen this newcomer before. So this is acintya. How the jiva fell down and how will we be reinstated in bhakti , by hearing and chanting and getting the mercy of the uttama adhikaris.
 
My Gurudeva Srila Bhakti Vedanta Narayana Maharaja has explained about Gopa Kumara:
 
In Srila Sanatana Gosvami's Brhad-bhagavatamrta, Gopa Kumara (who is known as Svarupa in Krsna's pastimes) tells his personal history to his disciple, the Mathura brahmana, Jana Sarma. Previous to this, Jana Sarma had executed no devotional practices to speak of – like Pariksit Maharaja. Pariksit Maharaja heard Srimad-Bhagavatam for only seven days and nights. He was only hearing. He did not practice any of the other nine limbs of bhakti. However, simply by hearing, he received gopi-bhava.
 
Jana Sarma heard all philosophical truths and all about Krsna's glories, and he had no realization of what he had heard. However, when his Gurudeva, Svarupa (in the form os Gopa-kumara), put his hand on his head and said, "Oh, you should now realize all that I've spoken" at once, in a moment, without any sadhana or bhajana, he saw Krsna's abode and realized, "I am in Goloka Vrndavana, in Vraja." Being situated in sakhya-rasa there, Krsna met him, embraced him, and he fainted.
 
Svarupavat – he became just like Svarupa. And, if you will have strong faith in sadhu-sanga, you can all become like that – by that sadhu-sanga. So believe in this.
 
mahat-sangama-mahatmyam
evaitat paramadbhutam
krtartho yena vipro 'sau
sadyo 'bhut tat-svarupavat
 
["The glory of mahat-sanga is super-astounding. By the influence of that glory, Jana Sarma's life immediately became successful, like that of his Guru, Svarupa. He became a personal friend of Sri Krsna by the association of Svarupa, who was known as Gopa Kumara in this world. That he immediately attained bhagavat-prema demonstrated the immense value of association with a great personality. Just like Svarupa, within an instance that brahmana felt fully gratified." (Brhat-Bhagavatamrta 2.7.14)]
 
The glory of sadhu-sanga is so high, so extraordinary and wonderful, that in a moment Jana Sarma became like his Guru, Svarupa, without performing sadhana.
 
Svarupa was a personal associate of Krsna in Goloka Vrndavana, and by the order of Srimati Radhika he came to help Jana Sarma. He is an eternal associate with no need to have ever done sadhana and bhajana. He is like Mother Yasoda and Nanda Baba, and like all the sakhis of Srimati Radhika. It is not a fact that they previously did sadhana-bhajana, as we must, and after that they became matured. However, as Gopa-Kumara, he played the role of a conditioned soul doing sadhana and gradually developing to perfection.
 
On the other hand, the Mathura brahmana was a conditioned soul. By constitution he was an eternal sakha (cowherd friend) of Krsna, and by the mercy of Gopa-kumara, Svarupa, he realized his pure form.
 
By nature we are all eternal associates of Krsna; we are transcendental. But we are not realizing that now. Similarly, Jana Sarma was not realized, but by the mercy of his nitya-parikara (eternal associate of Lord Krsna) Guru, Svarupa, sent by Radhika from Goloka, he became the same as him.
 
Mother Yasoda is eternally Krsna's mother. She never had to practice bhakti-yoga to become so. As previously mentioned Svarupa was also like that, but, as Gopa-kumara in this world he showed how conditioned souls can become perfect by execution of sadhana coupled with the mercy of the pure devotees.
 

  There are two kinds of mercy (krpa): Vaisnava-krpa and Krsna-krpa. There are two kinds of sraddha (faith): laukiki (material and weak) and paramarthika (transcendental and powerful). Paramarthika-sraddha is also of two kinds: vaidhi (regulative) and madurya (spontaneous, with a transcendental greed to enter Vrndavana as a gopi). Do you understand? The second kind is very, very difficult, and very rare. From that type of sraddha, nistha, ruci, asakti, rati and prema comes –and that prema is of the nature of ruddha, adhiruddha and madana.

 
How can we receive this? Only by the mercy of Krsna or His associate. Without mercy we cannot do anything. Here we see that, like Gopa-kumara, by sadhana our bhakti can gradually be matured in so many births in so many kalpas (millenniums). And what became of Jana Sarma? By his Guru placing his hands on his head, he at once closed his eyes, opened them, and saw that he was not in this world but in transcendental Goloka Vrndavana. He saw how Krsna was returning home from cow-herding, he met Krsna, Krsna embraced him and he fainted.
 
How could this occur? One may have such a doubt. We have a Guru and we are chanting, but we are not tasting any spiritual fruit. Why? It is because there are so many defects in our bhakti. So how did it happen that the impossible became possible – that at once, in a moment, in a second, without any sadhana or bhajana, Jana Sarma went to Goloka-Vrndavana and met with his friend Krsna, with Srimati Yasoda devi and Nanda Baba, and with the gopis and all other Vrajavasis. Don't doubt this. This was a miracle; you should believe this. Why should you not doubt? Because if you doubt, your bhakti cannot mature and you cannot become a real devotee. 
 
anyabhilasita-sunyam
jnana-karmady-anavrtam
anukulyena krsnanu-
silanam bhaktir uttama
 
["The cultivation of activities that are meant exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Krsna, or in other words the uninterrupted flow of service to Sri Krsna, performed through all endeavours of the body, mind and speech, and through the expression of various spiritual sentiments (bhavas), which is not covered by jnana (knowledge aimed at impersonal liberation) and karma (reward-seeking activity), and which is devoid of all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Sri Krsna, is called uttama-bhakti, pure devotional service." (Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11)]
 Hear this very carefully. Whatever you do, do for Krsna. Be open; quite open – not covered. If you want to hide anything from anyone, if you want to do something but in a hidden way, it means you are ashamed of what you are doing. If you are in sadhu-sanga and still you want to hide something; this is an offense. You should have an open book policy – having nothing to hide, being fully surrendered, and not doing anything for yourselves. Then, if you will be in sadhu-sanga, in a moment, by the grace of your Gurudeva this miracle will be possible for you.
 
But Gurudeva should be of the quality of Svarupa. If Gurudeva is not like him, he cannot give such blessings to his disciple. A guru can help his disciple to the degree he himself is qualified. He can be kind to his disciple to that degree. 
 
I think that you are very, very lucky that you have come in the line of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada. You should hear hari-katha and become like him – whether you are in family life or you are a brahmacari or sannyasi, it doesn't matter.

 
You can read the whole lecture of my Gurudeva here : http://www.purebhakti.com/teachers/bhakti-discourses-mainmenu-61/23...
 
The conclusion is it takes so much blessings and advancement in Krsna consciouness so we must seek the blessings of great vaisnavas like Srila Prabhupada and   my Gurudeva and we will all become ok in KC and we can go back to Krsna and have our eternal Svarupa 
In Goloka there is no such politics that this one is in Gaudiya math and this one in ISKCON these things are external what matters is you develop your love for Krsna . Srila Narayana Maharaja used to tell me the instituion will not give love of Radha and Krsna and Mahaprabhu , but in the sanga of devotees we can advance.Not just any neophyte devotees will do we need very high class association . We can see how much humble my Gurudeva was , he sometimes placed his hand on my head a few times , I still feel my Gurudevas blessings are with me , I have never left him as some may think relationship with the Guru is in the heart . One who has real Guru can never leave him as the relationship is within ones heart as is the relationship with Krsna. I had some fight with my godbrothers over the Kalki Avatar , I was much angry they preached that Kalki avatar will not come in the end of this Kali yuga  and my Gurudeva did not meet me and discuss this matter .,So I have left his sanga and sometimes I send him some letters he mostly responded through his servants back to me ,he never forgot me. Though one godbrother said I think Srila Gurudeva forgot me.No he will never forget me and I will never forget Srila Gurudevas lotusfeet.I will one day meet him again beyond matter and time , that is my faith as I  hope to be with srila Prabhupadas in his svarupa as a sakha serving Krsna .
 
Srila Prabhupada wrote on Jaladutta 51 years ago :  evam janam nipatitam prabhavahikupe
kamabhikamam anu yah prapatan prasangat
krtvatmasat surarsina bhagavan grhitah
so ‘ham katham nu visrje tava bhrtya-sevam
“My dear Lord, O Supreme Personality of Godhead, because of my association with material desires, one after another, I was gradually falling into a blind well of snakes, following the general populace. But Your servant Narada Muni kindly accepted me as his disciple and instucted me how to achieve this transcendental position. Therefore, my first duty is to serve him. How could I leave his service?” (Prahlada Maharaja to Lord Nrsimhadeva, Srimad-Bhagavatam, 7.9.28)
O Lord Krsna, You are my eternal companion. Forgetting You, I have suffered the kicks of maya birth after birth. If today the chance to meet You occurs again, then I will surely be able to rejoin You.
O dear friend, in Your company I will experience great joy once again. In the early morning I will wander about the cowherd pastures and fields. Running and frolicking in the many forests of Vraja, I will roll on the ground in spiritual ecstacy. O when will that day be mine?
Today that remembrance of You came to me in a very nice way. Because I have a great longing I called to You. I am Your eternal servant and therefore I desire Your association so much. O Lord Krsna, except for You there is no other means of success.
vaisnava das das anu das
Paramananda das

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