seeing through the eyes of scriptures
Guru means heavy but fully in line with Srila Prabhupada?
PAMHO
AGTSP
I read the article by Gaura Govinda Swami posted on Dandavats.com
From Krishna Kathamrita Bindu issue 238
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja
Devotee 1: Some devotees say that since there are so many people coming to Krishna consciousness now, and since Srila Prabhupada said that we should become gurus, so even if we are not qualified, still, because the need is there for gurus, then we must take up the service to Srila Prabhupada of becoming a guru.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Prabhupada said, “You become guru.” But guru means guru. Guru means heavy, not light. “You become guru”, means to become guru in the true sense. Not an untrue or false guru. Become a true guru. That is what Srila Prabhupada was saying.
Devotee 2: Is there a need to take the position out of necessity?
Gour Govinda Swami: What is that necessity? The necessity is to deliver a fallen soul and give him shelter. That is the necessity. What other necessity is there?
Devotee 2:
So if you can’t deliver the disciple, then why act as guru?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Delivering the fallen souls is the necessity. Other than this, what else is necessary? Some may say that there is some material necessity. But we are not after material considerations. We are after spiritual necessity. We are not materialists. We are spiritualists. If you only think of material necessities, then it will be a materialistic organization. This is Mahaprabhu’s movement. He has not said to do like this. Mahaprabhu has not set that example.
If someone is not qualified, how can he accept disciples? If he is intelligent, he should not accept. “No. I cannot take up that responsibility. Why shall I accept?” Guru means very heavy. It’s a heavy responsibility, not something light. If he cannot take up the responsibility, why should he accept disciples? Why would such a person accept disciples? He will do so only for his own adoration, honor, and prestige — pratiṣṭhā. Pratiṣṭhā means honor, name, fame, adoration and prestige. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami says that pratiṣṭhā is śukarera-viṣṭhā, the stool of a hog. If a vaiṣṇava is trying to get pratiṣṭhā, name, fame, prestige, and adoration, then that is accepting the stool of a hog. A vaiṣṇava will never run after this thing.
— From a darshan, April 1992, Bhubaneswar.
Excerpted from issue number 238 of Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu the fortnightly email magazine from ISKCON Gopal Jiu Publications. For information about obtaining a free subscription to Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu, write to:
katha@gopaljiu.org
or visit our website:
http://www.gopaljiu.org
Gaura Govinda Maharaja was very heavy even with those who was not his disciples, mostly I agreed with all his being heavy, but I did not agree that his disciples was traveling with him every where and just listening to his lectures 5 hours a day and having no service in the preaching mission,Have you ever seen one disciples of Gaura Govinda Maharaja distribute Srila Prabhupadas books?,I do hear there is some book distribution in Orissa,and Maharaja also helped translate Srila Prabhupadas books into Orrisian.I know he had several disciples that used to distribute Prabhupadas books,that left this important mission to travel with their Guru .I did not agree, I am sure Srila Prabhupada would have preferred they continue this service.Maharaja never encouraged anyone to distribute Srila PRabhupadas books or chant 64 rounds or read Prabhupadas books it was all about his lectures and his books and how you can not understand Srila Prabhupada without him.Sounds familiar, like many he was not free from the desire to be an acarya,One can not be an acarya and only chant 16 rounds and disagree with Srila Prabhupada on the jiva issue.I found he was heavey for not good reason, and not stressing the important things,He never once went out to distribute Srila Prabhupadas books, so to me he was not heavy enough but falsely heavy on some things.
WHEN HE WAS HEAVY HE WAS USUALLY RIGHT, but Lord Caitanya has taught :
trinad api sunicena
taror api sahishnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harihi
One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.
I never heard him one time preach we should chant 64 rounds so to me he was not heavy enough, and I never heard him once tell his disciples to distribute Prabhupadas books and stop following him around all over the world .I never heard him tell his disciples stop seeing him as more important than Srila Prabhupada,Madhavananda Prabhu also told me he thinks his books are equal to Srila Prabhupada and I think he learned this kind of pride from Gaura Govinda Maharaja?, I do not agree.He thinks the distribution of Krsna Kathamrta is as important than Prabhupadas books and if other devotees publish vaisnava litterature he takes them as competitors
I want to narrate how Krsna once used Gaura Govinda to be really heavy but very correct,In ISKCON Potomac the then TP Sathivara das was mistreating many devotees and expelling many devotees from the temple for no good reason.
Gaura Govinda Maharaja had no information on this but at the end of one class he roared::
"SOMETIMES THE TEMPLE PRESIDENT THINKS HE HAS BECOME KRISHNA , HE THROWS OUT DEVOTEES FROM THE TEMPLE FOR NO GOOD REASON YOU GET OUT YOU GET OUT YOU GET OUT ."
I questioned the temple board a month later why was Ramakrishna mission allowed to preach their nonsense in the culture hall ( obviously they payed for renting it that was the only reason) but people from the congregation went and attended the whole program
hearing from the Ramakrishna mission preacher that why worship the Deity of Radha Krishna you might as well worship a mountain, no need to chant Hare Krishna, any sound vibration will not give liberation.
I was asked to leave the temple for questioning such things, the international GBC agreed with my complaint but some TP's and GBC's hated me for busting their hindu business.
Regarding the Jiva issue I did not agree with Gaura Govinda maharaja he stated the jiva did never fall from the Spiritual world:
I heared from many lecturer by Srila Prabhupada that the jiva did fall from the spiritual sky.
Lord Balarama is adi Guru He can be as heavey as He want with me, because He will never chastise me unfairly, but because He is so mercifull He has appeared as Lord Nityananda Prabhu to save the most fallen persons ,even such a person like myself.
And Surely I am also thankfull for having had the assocaition of Gaura Govinda Maharaja but I did not agree with him on everything,
I wrote this recently:
Dandavat pranams
all glories to Srila Prabhupada
Gaura Govinda Maharaja was of the opinion the jiva never came from the spiritual world, however in 1995 I gave one of Srila Prabhupadas tapes to one of his disciples and asked him to comment on Srila Prabhupadas statement:
"Because we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation. We living entities, we are eternal. Even the creation is annihilated after millions and trillions of years, the living entities, they are not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. They remain. So when this whole cosmic manifestation will be annihilated, the living entities will remain in the body of Visnu. Then when again another creation will take place, they will come out again to fulfill their desires. The real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead."
Gaura Govinda Maharaja did not comment on this,though this disciples asked Maharaja and his other disciples to listen to Srila Prabhupadas statement, I agree and accepted everything else I ever heard from Gaura Govinda Maharaja and he gave me much personal siksa also, but on the jiva issue we did not agree, because I agreed with what Srila Prabhupada said on this issue .But this is a small issue for me now really as Srila Prabhupada said just worry about getting out of the material world by surrender to Krsna, not on how you got here.
your servant
Payonidhi das
"How To Utilize Fighting Spirit"
73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6
my humbe pranams to Srila Prabhupada, and Nitai Gaura
your servant
Payonidhi das
Lord Caitanys standard is 64 rounds Srila Prabhupada tried to introduce it but devotees disobeyed Srila Prabhupada in doing this:
FIRST INITIATION BY SRILA PRABHUPADA
The Hare Krishna Explosion, p. 63, by Hayagriva dasa, Palace Press 1985.
"Now that you have beads," Swamiji says the next morning, "you should chant sixty-four rounds every day." "Sixty-four rounds?" To pronounce every word of the mantra distinctly, we require five minutes to chant a round. Sixty-four rounds would take over five hours. "Impossible!" we say. "We'll never have the time." "All right," Swamiji says. "Thirty-two rounds." "Impossible," we say. "We'll never be able to do it. It's way too much." "All right," Swamiji says. "Sixteen rounds. No less."
Srila Prabhupada writes in SB 7.9.44 purport:
"Rather, every member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is interested in going door to door to try to convince people about the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the purpose of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be fully convinced that without Kṛṣṇa one cannot be happy. Thus the Kṛṣṇa conscious person avoids all kinds of pseudo spiritualists, transcendentalists, meditators, monists, philosophers and philanthropists."
When Srila Prabhupada wrote every member of ISKCON, he did mean every member of ISKCON should distribute his books,he is the Guru,the founder acarya, not Gaura Govinda or Narayana Maharaja or anyone else
AGTSP
I read the article by Gaura Govinda Swami posted on Dandavats.com
From Krishna Kathamrita Bindu issue 238
Sri Srimad Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja
Devotee 1: Some devotees say that since there are so many people coming to Krishna consciousness now, and since Srila Prabhupada said that we should become gurus, so even if we are not qualified, still, because the need is there for gurus, then we must take up the service to Srila Prabhupada of becoming a guru.
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Prabhupada said, “You become guru.” But guru means guru. Guru means heavy, not light. “You become guru”, means to become guru in the true sense. Not an untrue or false guru. Become a true guru. That is what Srila Prabhupada was saying.
Devotee 2: Is there a need to take the position out of necessity?
Gour Govinda Swami: What is that necessity? The necessity is to deliver a fallen soul and give him shelter. That is the necessity. What other necessity is there?
Devotee 2:
So if you can’t deliver the disciple, then why act as guru?
Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Delivering the fallen souls is the necessity. Other than this, what else is necessary? Some may say that there is some material necessity. But we are not after material considerations. We are after spiritual necessity. We are not materialists. We are spiritualists. If you only think of material necessities, then it will be a materialistic organization. This is Mahaprabhu’s movement. He has not said to do like this. Mahaprabhu has not set that example.
If someone is not qualified, how can he accept disciples? If he is intelligent, he should not accept. “No. I cannot take up that responsibility. Why shall I accept?” Guru means very heavy. It’s a heavy responsibility, not something light. If he cannot take up the responsibility, why should he accept disciples? Why would such a person accept disciples? He will do so only for his own adoration, honor, and prestige — pratiṣṭhā. Pratiṣṭhā means honor, name, fame, adoration and prestige. Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami says that pratiṣṭhā is śukarera-viṣṭhā, the stool of a hog. If a vaiṣṇava is trying to get pratiṣṭhā, name, fame, prestige, and adoration, then that is accepting the stool of a hog. A vaiṣṇava will never run after this thing.
— From a darshan, April 1992, Bhubaneswar.
Excerpted from issue number 238 of Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu the fortnightly email magazine from ISKCON Gopal Jiu Publications. For information about obtaining a free subscription to Sri Krishna Kathamrita Bindu, write to:
katha@gopaljiu.org
or visit our website:
http://www.gopaljiu.org
Gaura Govinda Maharaja was very heavy even with those who was not his disciples, mostly I agreed with all his being heavy, but I did not agree that his disciples was traveling with him every where and just listening to his lectures 5 hours a day and having no service in the preaching mission,Have you ever seen one disciples of Gaura Govinda Maharaja distribute Srila Prabhupadas books?,I do hear there is some book distribution in Orissa,and Maharaja also helped translate Srila Prabhupadas books into Orrisian.I know he had several disciples that used to distribute Prabhupadas books,that left this important mission to travel with their Guru .I did not agree, I am sure Srila Prabhupada would have preferred they continue this service.Maharaja never encouraged anyone to distribute Srila PRabhupadas books or chant 64 rounds or read Prabhupadas books it was all about his lectures and his books and how you can not understand Srila Prabhupada without him.Sounds familiar, like many he was not free from the desire to be an acarya,One can not be an acarya and only chant 16 rounds and disagree with Srila Prabhupada on the jiva issue.I found he was heavey for not good reason, and not stressing the important things,He never once went out to distribute Srila Prabhupadas books, so to me he was not heavy enough but falsely heavy on some things.
WHEN HE WAS HEAVY HE WAS USUALLY RIGHT, but Lord Caitanya has taught :
trinad api sunicena
taror api sahishnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyah sada harihi
One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.
I never heard him one time preach we should chant 64 rounds so to me he was not heavy enough, and I never heard him once tell his disciples to distribute Prabhupadas books and stop following him around all over the world .I never heard him tell his disciples stop seeing him as more important than Srila Prabhupada,Madhavananda Prabhu also told me he thinks his books are equal to Srila Prabhupada and I think he learned this kind of pride from Gaura Govinda Maharaja?, I do not agree.He thinks the distribution of Krsna Kathamrta is as important than Prabhupadas books and if other devotees publish vaisnava litterature he takes them as competitors
I want to narrate how Krsna once used Gaura Govinda to be really heavy but very correct,In ISKCON Potomac the then TP Sathivara das was mistreating many devotees and expelling many devotees from the temple for no good reason.
Gaura Govinda Maharaja had no information on this but at the end of one class he roared::
"SOMETIMES THE TEMPLE PRESIDENT THINKS HE HAS BECOME KRISHNA , HE THROWS OUT DEVOTEES FROM THE TEMPLE FOR NO GOOD REASON YOU GET OUT YOU GET OUT YOU GET OUT ."
I questioned the temple board a month later why was Ramakrishna mission allowed to preach their nonsense in the culture hall ( obviously they payed for renting it that was the only reason) but people from the congregation went and attended the whole program
hearing from the Ramakrishna mission preacher that why worship the Deity of Radha Krishna you might as well worship a mountain, no need to chant Hare Krishna, any sound vibration will not give liberation.
I was asked to leave the temple for questioning such things, the international GBC agreed with my complaint but some TP's and GBC's hated me for busting their hindu business.
Regarding the Jiva issue I did not agree with Gaura Govinda maharaja he stated the jiva did never fall from the Spiritual world:
I heared from many lecturer by Srila Prabhupada that the jiva did fall from the spiritual sky.
Lord Balarama is adi Guru He can be as heavey as He want with me, because He will never chastise me unfairly, but because He is so mercifull He has appeared as Lord Nityananda Prabhu to save the most fallen persons ,even such a person like myself.
And Surely I am also thankfull for having had the assocaition of Gaura Govinda Maharaja but I did not agree with him on everything,
I wrote this recently:
Dandavat pranams
all glories to Srila Prabhupada
Gaura Govinda Maharaja was of the opinion the jiva never came from the spiritual world, however in 1995 I gave one of Srila Prabhupadas tapes to one of his disciples and asked him to comment on Srila Prabhupadas statement:
"Because we have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago. Anadi karama-phale. Anadi means before the creation. We living entities, we are eternal. Even the creation is annihilated after millions and trillions of years, the living entities, they are not annihilated. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. They remain. So when this whole cosmic manifestation will be annihilated, the living entities will remain in the body of Visnu. Then when again another creation will take place, they will come out again to fulfill their desires. The real desire is how to go to home, back to Godhead."
Gaura Govinda Maharaja did not comment on this,though this disciples asked Maharaja and his other disciples to listen to Srila Prabhupadas statement, I agree and accepted everything else I ever heard from Gaura Govinda Maharaja and he gave me much personal siksa also, but on the jiva issue we did not agree, because I agreed with what Srila Prabhupada said on this issue .But this is a small issue for me now really as Srila Prabhupada said just worry about getting out of the material world by surrender to Krsna, not on how you got here.
your servant
Payonidhi das
"How To Utilize Fighting Spirit"
73/08/06 London, Bhagavad-gita 2.6
my humbe pranams to Srila Prabhupada, and Nitai Gaura
your servant
Payonidhi das
Lord Caitanys standard is 64 rounds Srila Prabhupada tried to introduce it but devotees disobeyed Srila Prabhupada in doing this:
FIRST INITIATION BY SRILA PRABHUPADA
The Hare Krishna Explosion, p. 63, by Hayagriva dasa, Palace Press 1985.
"Now that you have beads," Swamiji says the next morning, "you should chant sixty-four rounds every day." "Sixty-four rounds?" To pronounce every word of the mantra distinctly, we require five minutes to chant a round. Sixty-four rounds would take over five hours. "Impossible!" we say. "We'll never have the time." "All right," Swamiji says. "Thirty-two rounds." "Impossible," we say. "We'll never be able to do it. It's way too much." "All right," Swamiji says. "Sixteen rounds. No less."
Srila Prabhupada writes in SB 7.9.44 purport:
"Rather, every member of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is interested in going door to door to try to convince people about the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is the purpose of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. The members of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be fully convinced that without Kṛṣṇa one cannot be happy. Thus the Kṛṣṇa conscious person avoids all kinds of pseudo spiritualists, transcendentalists, meditators, monists, philosophers and philanthropists."
When Srila Prabhupada wrote every member of ISKCON, he did mean every member of ISKCON should distribute his books,he is the Guru,the founder acarya, not Gaura Govinda or Narayana Maharaja or anyone else
Views: 140
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Comment by Paramananda das on November 21, 2010 at 10:13am
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Payonidhi Prabhu,
I think you are quite confused. You should re-read the statements of the
acaryas before venturing into criticising them.
ys, Isvara dasa.
ISvara Prabhu I am not confused,I do not take Gaura Govinda Maharaja as an acarya ,only Srila Prabhupada ,this is the point I am making..only Srila Prabhupada no one else, this is my personal opinion we may however disagree, and if you choose to see Gaura Govinda Maharaja as an acarya this is your full right to do so,I do not agree
It does not diminish the love I have for him as a great devotee, ....
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one point you are missing is I am rejecting the parts that he taught that was not in line with Srila Prabhupada
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